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Old 12-12-2015, 04:01 PM   #111
Sweep
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Originally Posted by WinterH View Post

Counter for 120 equipped F-15E ? Whatever has been counter for 120 equipped F-15C so far. And other active radar homing missile equipped modules in pipeline, and also tactics / skill when in a non ARH equipped aircraft. F-15E is not more dangerous than F-15C as an aerial threat.

Peace, out
And that's the "problem", shall we say: there is no counter to a better BVR SA/weapons platform, even if our AMRAAMs might not be great compared to RL the SARH-guy won't get a fair fight very often.

But an unfair fight is the whole idea, isn't it?

For Mr Morrow: While an AIM-7 only F-15E would be "fair" vs F-14 and M2000C, it's not going to be fun against the Su-27s, why? Because the ER outranges the Sparrow. The Sukhois and MiGs are the primary threats to Eagles (of all shapes, sizes, and colors) in-game and IRL. So you'll have a fight stacked in their favor as it comes to weapons, but you'll have more SA.

I'll get the popcorn for that!
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:01 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmorrow View Post
You misinterpreted what I wrote. If the F-15E module was one where the plane had the capacity to carry the AIM-120 and the AIM-7, mission builders could just as easily add in the AIM-120 as add in the AIM-7. Savvy?
Oh?

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Originally Posted by mjmorrow View Post
The F-15E did not always carry the AIM-120.

What I would want, a high fidelity ASM/ EFM F-15E with the minimum of guesswork put into F-15E systems modelling, and SARH only capabilities, does not require stripping a DCS F-15E of any weapon that it actually did carry.

Agree or disagree with my conclusions on introducing a SARH only F-15E, but let us not get into this silly business about (you)...
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:20 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterH View Post
@mjmorrow :

I'm not even sure you read what I've written so far or not, and less sure why am I still writing to the thread but :

- There is no SARH only F-14. F-14A, from day one, had AIM-54 Phoenix, which is pretty much active radar guided. While it is not a favorite aircraft of mine, if we go by your logic, F-14 should then never be done in DCS, or it should be unrealistically castrated by not including it's main weapon. Either proposition is as bad in my book as those asking for AIM-120 on F-14.
- There is SARH only Mirage 2000, which is called Mirage 2000C. There is no SARH only F-16 or SARH only F-15E. They barely existed for a few years, and received AMRAAM more or less as soon as it entered service. So I'm fairly sure no development studio would choose to announce either one without AMRAAM capability, whics is about 1992.

Big picture ? Well here goes :
- Like there are Korea or WW II only servers, there will also be post 90s servers with more active radar and some SARH equipped 4th gen aircraft. F-15E will fit there. More active radar missile equipped fighters are coming in form of F-18, EF-2000 and F-14 to count the ones we know so far.
- There will be servers where AIM-120 is disabled, F-15E will fit there just as fine.
- There will be free for all servers like most popular ones are. F-15E will... you've guessed it. Those servers are crawling with F-15C, which is even if by a bit, more dangerous A-A opponent anyway.

Counter for 120 equipped F-15E ? Whatever has been counter for 120 equipped F-15C so far. And other active radar homing missile equipped modules in pipeline, and also tactics / skill when in a non ARH equipped aircraft. F-15E is not more dangerous than F-15C as an aerial threat.

Peace, out
I have considered what you have written so far, Winter. I respect your opinion. My conclusions are different. I didn't respond to what you wrote. It is not that I don't consider your perspective important, I do. You stated your position and point of view on the issue. I personally think that the community ought to weigh in your perspective and consider it.

I am not here to pick the positions and perspectives of other persons. I am not making a formal argument, where I address all sides and then attempt to dismantle the other perspectives, because I am not interested in an argument. You wrote what you believe, I value your opinion. I stated my own opinions. I wasn't ignoring your position, I was respecting the fact that those are your sincere beliefs on the matter. You disagree with my position and I didn't see anything to react to, because those are your sincere well reasoned beliefs and I respect you and your beliefs.

I didn't think that your simply disagreeing with my position required a debate between us. I didn't take your having an alternative point of view personally or think that it was a bad thing. Our differing views are out there, persons ought to consider all sides, come up with their own perspectives, come to their own conclusions.

MJ
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:37 PM   #114
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Oh?
You edited my quote and misinterpreted my remarks. I neither explicitly wrote nor intended to suggest that scenario designers could easily put the AIM-120 on a SARH only F-15E. I was suggesting that if a scenario designer could easily remove the AIM-120 from a F-15E capable of employing that missile, than the scenario designer could just as easily add the AIM-120 to a F-15E capable of carrying the AIM-120.

For the record and to be clear, my position is simply that if a DCS F-15E is introduced into DCS, it is best if that F-15E is a SARH only variant, because a SARH only variant will most likely be the one with the highest fidelity ASM, will best complement and fit in with the current and future DCS 4TH Generation DCS modules, such as the Mirage 2000c & F-14, will best contribute to ensuring the consistency of optimal competitive multiplayer game play and will best contribute to an overall enjoyable multiplayer experience, for everyone.

I appreciate that you do not share my views and conclusions on the matter. While I value your opinion, I hold to my own conclusions on this matter.
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Last edited by mjmorrow; 12-12-2015 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 12-12-2015, 06:07 PM   #115
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There is no need for old F-15E, you can remove AIM-120 from loadout If you dont like it.
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Old 12-12-2015, 06:51 PM   #116
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At the end of the day chaps, it's really the availability of technical systems and flight characteristics information that will decide the block number of any DCS:F-15E.

Since that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if an eventual mudhen was SAHR only. But suffice it to say, this is not a game-play decision and is 100% based on what is and what isn't classified information.
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:27 PM   #117
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I don't think its just classified information, but what's unrestricted/available.

The F-15E -1 manual is on avialogs...but I haven't found a -34 for it though, so that might say something. Though these developers have more 'power' at getting stuff than the average flight sim-er like myself, I'm sure.

I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter, we'll get whatever we get, even if its an AIM-9P3-only F-15E.
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:38 PM   #118
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mjmorrow

You a fellow Chuck fan?
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:49 PM   #119
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mjmorrow

You a fellow Chuck fan?
Yep! Chuck is my favorite show. MJ
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Old 12-12-2015, 09:47 PM   #120
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I haven't found a 15E -34 that doesn't include AIM-120's. On the other hand, it's not like there's much access to this stuff

In any case, I doubt devs are concerned with balance, nor should they be. They should be considered with accurately modeling the aircraft capabilities, IMHO. But then again, that's their business, not mine.

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The F-15E -1 manual is on avialogs...but I haven't found a -34 for it though, so that might say something. Though these developers have more 'power' at getting stuff than the average flight sim-er like myself, I'm sure.
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