Add the ability to repair a runway

Recently ED fixed a bug where runway damage was not synced between the host and clients in multiplayer. This means that now when someone bombs a runway during a multiplayer session, the runway is bombed for everyone and, if it's damaged enough, the airport is rendered inoperable.

This has introduced some interesting new gameplay, but it has one big downside - there's no way to repair an airfield during a multiplayer session so if someone bombs the runway in the first 10 minutes of a six hour server session, then it stays inoperable for six hours. The only solution currently is to restart the server. That downside has caused lots of servers to either ban certain weapons (e.g. the JSOW-C) or to outright ban the tactic. It would be useful if ED could add into the API the ability for mission designers / server owners to trigger the runway to be repaired.

This is needed and would very much be appreciated.

I disagree ....... there is a famous proverb that says "whoever makes mistakes pays".

in the real war if I bomb you the runway and to make it unusable my goal and that.

you could use the taxy.

the repair of a runway involves weeks of work, it is not just a few hours. REMEMBER YOU ARE MAKING A WAR IS NOT AN ARCADE.

in reality the pilots make a transfer to an alternative airport in case of urgency use either the civil airports or road airports on motorways.

Just because it's added as a feature for mission makers to utilize, doesn't mean they have to use it.

This really should be a feature. It may not be realistic but neither is bombing a runway with RB15s that create massive phase shifting craters that cause your aircraft to fall through the earth. You drop a couple of those on the ramp and using a taxiway is not even a solution anymore. The solution then is to pick another airfield. But then what if that field gets the same treatment? Well then I guess you go down the list until they are all bombed. Then the solution is to disconnect and find somewhere else to play. Not a very good solution for server heath, and a solution no server owner wants to see.

Realism can be taken to an extreme that makes no sense. How about you have to buy a new copy of whatever module you were shot down in? I bet ED would love that. Maybe even charge $25 million per copy?

This is a video game at the end of the day and options like this are needed for many scenarios in the MP environment. An option to use or not use this feature would allow mission designers to make that decision for themselves.

This really should be a feature. It may not be realistic but neither is bombing a runway with RB15s that create massive phase shifting craters that cause your aircraft to fall through the earth. You drop a couple of those on the ramp and using a taxiway is not even a solution anymore. The solution then is to pick another airfield. But then what if that field gets the same treatment? Well then I guess you go down the list until they are all bombed. Then the solution is to disconnect and find somewhere else to play. Not a very good solution for server heath, and a solution no server owner wants to see.

 

Realism can be taken to an extreme that makes no sense. How about you have to buy a new copy of whatever module you were shot down in? I bet ED would love that. Maybe even charge $25 million per copy?

This is a video game at the end of the day and options like this are needed for many scenarios in the MP environment. An option to use or not use this feature would allow mission designers to make that decision for themselves.

ok ok i want to listen to you and if you implement this function to repair the runway how much time would you give it for the complete repair?

the repair of a runway involves weeks of work, it is not just a few hours.

Actually no, temporary runway repairs can be carried out in a matter of hours by most NATO air forces (usually done by Army engineers) utilising gravel and other aggregate stored on/near the airfield in airfield damage repair piles and covered with roll out metal sheeting. The only time this isn’t the case if where area denial weapons (mines) are used alongside penetrating bombs. This is why JP233 had both cratering bomblets and mines.

And even where mines are used they can be cleared in hours or a few days at worst by competent army engineers.

This was an essential part of Cold War preparations.

I'd actually go all the way to have an excavator and some trucks roll out of the airport facility to come out on the runway so that it is really occupied while under repair.

Oh, how I would like to have some combined arms vehicles to do the job of repairing those craters myself to speed things up :music_whistling:

ok ok i want to listen to you and if you implement this function to repair the runway how much time would you give it for the complete repair?

It could be instant or it could take a set amount of time. I guess it would depend on how ED would actually implement it.

If they just gave the function to fix the airbase instantly then server owners and mission designers could decide what conditions need to be met and how long it would take.

When we do get the dynamic campaign and if said campaign is usable in multiplayer this feature will be even more needed, even if it takes days, hours, minutes, or seconds.

It could be instant or it could take a set amount of time. I guess it would depend on how ED would actually implement it.

 

If they just gave the function to fix the airbase instantly then server owners and mission designers could decide what conditions need to be met and how long it would take.

 

When we do get the dynamic campaign and if said campaign is usable in multiplayer this feature will be even more needed, even if it takes days, hours, minutes, or seconds.

: Megalol:

currently in DCS to repair a plane a countdown of 170s is taken to repair a runway surely it will take more than 170s even if the runway is 100% damaged.

Not sure what is funny about that? I never specified a time. But lets say that when the command is given that the runway is repaired instantly. That does not stop the mission designer from then deciding how long they think it should take from a gameplay perspective. It could be 1 second or 1 week.

Do you even play MP? Do you understand how any of these missions are run? Do you also understand the issues specific to multiplayer? Would you rather JDAM, JSOW-C, RB15, and any other weapon capable of stopping players from playing be banned on these servers? Many servers already ban some of these weapons for this very reason.

This is a real gameplay issues for some servers. If you don't like this because of realism then don't play where an option like this would exist. Just like servers with external views, labels, or other options enabled it could be allowed or not.

Just wanted to suggest such thing and here it is already

Not sure what is funny about that? I never specified a time. But lets say that when the command is given that the runway is repaired instantly. That does not stop the mission designer from then deciding how long they think it should take from a gameplay perspective. It could be 1 second or 1 week.

 

Do you even play MP? Do you understand how any of these missions are run? Do you also understand the issues specific to multiplayer? Would you rather JDAM, JSOW-C, RB15, and any other weapon capable of stopping players from playing be banned on these servers? Many servers already ban some of these weapons for this very reason.

 

This is a real gameplay issues for some servers. If you don't like this because of realism then don't play where an option like this would exist. Just like servers with external views, labels, or other options enabled it could be allowed or not.

: Megalol:

and amusing the fact that you tell me that the track can be repaired instantly ....... and this is not at all real.

I would laugh a lot and I would say this is an arcade game.

Doesn't this already happen, albeit at a glacial pace? :ermm:

I have no idea where I got it from, and it may very well have been some wild interpretation of an off-hand subclause a dev might have been overheard saying across a busy convention centre floor or some such, but I seem to (extremely vaguely) recall it being said that repairs do happen but over periods of 2–8 hours depending on the damage.

If nothing else, and if it isn't already in, it needs to happen so that the scattering of anti-runway weapons currently in the game serve a purpose.

: Megalol:

Your Kim Jong-un mentality is adorable.

"If, for whatever reason, I, personally, don't like it, then nobody is allowed to have it".

DCS is not a certified training platform. It's a simulation game, where you can die and instantly respawn, mindlessly waste jets and munition worth tens of millions of dollars, and repair a burning wreck of a plane in just three minutes.

We're doing it for fun - not for a salary. Even if someone is a masochistic hardcore nerd, he's still having fun in his own way.

So please tell me, how's your fun better than mine?

If you don't like this feature, then simply don't use it / don't play on a server that use it / start your own server. We are not taking anything from you, so it shouldn't bother you personally at all.

Before we start talking about repairing the runway... wouldn't it be good to have a runway damaged option to attach a trigger in the mission editor? Currently, the only way to set a trigger if the runway is hit is to create a bunch of bomb in zone conditions which is a pain in the @#$%

You really don't get it do you? You have no idea how any of these servers work. It's all based on LUA script.

You could set up a condition where once 5 crates are moved by slingload and unpacked it fixes the airbase instantly. You could also make a timer start once they are unpacked fixing the base in an hour.

The request is for the ability to simply fix a runway. The details of how long, or under what conditions, or even if at all would be up to the mission designer.

Errr Negative “Go to Alternate”

Your Kim Jong-un mentality is adorable.

"If, for whatever reason, I, personally, don't like it, then nobody is allowed to have it".

 

DCS is not a certified training platform. It's a simulation game, where you can die and instantly respawn, mindlessly waste jets and munition worth tens of millions of dollars, and repair a burning wreck of a plane in just three minutes.

 

We're doing it for fun - not for a salary. Even if someone is a masochistic hardcore nerd, he's still having fun in his own way.

 

So please tell me, how's your fun better than mine?

 

If you don't like this feature, then simply don't use it / don't play on a server that use it / start your own server. We are not taking anything from you, so it shouldn't bother you personally at all.

I would also be willing to accept the repair of the track but with the right proportions.

I said making a proportion that it takes 170 seconds to repair a plane how many seconds it takes to repair a runway?

This is good suggestion. Completly agree with it. Although I could always take off on the dirt with the Hornet anyway lol

I would also be willing to accept the repair of the track but with the right proportions.

I said making a proportion that it takes 170 seconds to repair a plane how many seconds it takes to repair a runway?

Throwing some rubble in a hole & driving a roller over it is probably vastly quicker than structural repairs to a complex aircraft...

You really don't get it do you? You have no idea how any of these servers work. It's all based on LUA script.

 

You could set up a condition where once 5 crates are moved by slingload and unpacked it fixes the airbase instantly. You could also make a timer start once they are unpacked fixing the base in an hour.

 

The request is for the ability to simply fix a runway. The details of how long, or under what conditions, or even if at all would be up to the mission designer.

but you can't change the repair time of an aircraft, request repair menu.

the second are 170 not editable.

While simulating more niche and side stuff falls out of the main focus of this sim usually, except if's part of a specific module like let's say Carrier operations, so isn't this a similar case?

This is a good case (or excuse :p) to have proper models of a few examples of some construction vehicles, enough to sell the idea of a repair of the runway, one bulldozer, one excavator, two kind of tipper trucks, one loader and one concrete truck, and there we go, you could use these units as civilan unarmed units just like they're no different, but it doesn't have to be a super-looking model like the rest, the models shouldn't need that much animations but it would be a bonus, you don't need to simulate sand dirt and pouring concrete, it's just visualized and the units are collidable and real entities on the runway, it would definitely look good if they had some movement to them like looping a few animations but without any complicated driving or jerking around, they would just roll out of the spawnpoint facility and drive to the runway essentially blocking it which is the main point, they would create more obstacles on the runway rendering it even more useless which is realism right, so even if you could potentially crash land and still be kinda good and repair, now you probably shouldn't even try landing until the repair is complete, the other the main point is that the repair process could potentially be interrupted/paused if the construction units get destroyed. This introduces a new gameplay depth and a twist of defending the repair of the airfield and also being handicapped from repairing/reloading/refueling your aircrafts.

The idea is welcome, but I rather not just do "wait 200 second for repair" or similar without anything happening to the runway. It's boring to wait for 200 seconds doing nothing right, at least you have something to watch, and more importantly something to do, DEFEND the runway repair vehicles.

I hope because of gamplay it's a good enough justification to make the models that by themselfs have nothing to do with military or aviation. The models are IMO the biggest prerequisite, then it's all about the code on each and every airfield to decide which airport building will the runway repair vehicle convoy spawn out of or even add a special building from which those trucks will spawn out of if the airfield doesn't have it or they should come out from the closest civilian factory-like structure? And the rest of the code, if airfields already have their specific universal paths defined which I think they do (for airplane AIs) maybe the repair-vehicle AI could find it's own way to the site and may be easier on dev to not have to do specific scripts for each airfield, it would be kinda nice if the repair vehicles drove next to the actual damaged point of the airfiled but that would be a bit more complicated IMO, it's enough if the vehicles just drive onto the runway at either end or even both ends (two similar repair convoys) but that would make it more easily avoidable if one were try to land, but it should look better than if the system would be inacurate and they would try rolling over the craters. In the end the runway would simply pop back in, probably no need to do any animation of the hole getting filled with concrete but it may be an interesting visual que for the enemy of the progress of the repair, there's probably no need to mess with runway models, the concrete filling up can probably be done very easy by just appropriately raising a 2D flat concrete texture up to cover the crater, or maybe 3 levels of texutre, 0-50% would raise a rock texture with the colors differentiating from the crater itself ofcourse, then from 50-80% you'd it replaced by the dirt/sand texture, when it gets 80% and higher it would look like a concrete texture, that would be an even bigger visual que for not just the enemy but everyone, otherwise if you're far away you'd need to look more careful, but with a color difference it's quite telling by just glancing your eyes.

Back to an earlier thing about the runway-repair-vehicle-convoy spawnpoint, having the spawn location dynamically decided from a nearby city/appropriate building or by a player that's designated the battlefield commander (forgot the actual term sorry) may not be that sure and may be unnecessairly complex, this is the depth it doesn't need to simulate, some smaller or remote cities with airfields probably don't have some kind of a building that makes sense and has some kind of a garage, and the repair vehicles might need to drive long distances and would too long to get to the airfield, the time it takes for the convoy to get to the runway should be precaculated into the standardized total repair time. Plus a bit of time it takes for them to clear the runway.

Oh the main point of the runway-repair-vehicle-convoy is to avoid spawning them on the airfield where everyone would be looking, it would look unrealistic, so if they spawn from an unusual location, preferrably some covered up structure and drive out, it's a lot better, that's the whole point I should have mentioned in the beginning why I went through all the trouble talking about it.

So is that good enough argument?

Yes I have a bit of bias I told about it a few times, that I'm routinely traveling to places where there is construction on purpose just to see it, snap some photos, etc, infact I am going right now in a few minutes to check on the progress of the train station renovation in the city.

EDIT: Oh oh and all of this runway repair process/progress/completion/runway opened/runway closed could be part of the new ATC so the ATC would be AWARE of this taking place and you could contact it and they would tell you "runway 05 is closed due to repairs. ETA 5 minutes until repairs are over" the ATC could even have it's PSAs every few minutes talking about the fact that the runway is damaged or under repair (very basic sentence just as an example here), as we can see the Carrier ATC has real people in DCS so it's all recorded for DCS and not some pre-recorded sound package, so it would be great making the new ATC flexible to various conditions taking place, so it's great I thought of this idea until it's too late, probably won't be calling people to come back to studio for just a few sound bites right, possible but unlikely.

I agree this would be a nice addition. As Worrazen said, adding an unarmed construction unit (or several) to the sim could be useful for a lot of scenarios to be built in the future by themselves, even if the actual 'repair runways' function probably doesn't see much use out of multiplayer.

Giving such a unit the ability to repair structures doesn't seem quite far-fetched, technically speaking. A lot of the damage is like a 'destruction' object put into the world, so that could in theory be removed again. Also it isn't necessarily all about bomb craters, but already an ability to remove the wreckage of crashed planes would be appreciated (I personally think this would happen much more than craters anyway).

One more thing to do in CA, methinks.

Also, simply put: don't want this option in your mission, just don't include the builder unit. Or perhaps give it a payload option to be either operational or just scenery.