Setting realistic expectations for the Hornet

So..kind of an off the wall question..

Neofightr..did you ever have the desire (or opportunity) to do exchange tours? I know a few Tomcat pilots expressed a desire to go over and do a tour with the RAF in Tornados and such and a few Hornet pilots went over and spent time in Vipers and Eagles.

Also..the (yearly?) NSAWC re-blue..obviously necessary and important..did they ever feel old-hat..the "yeah yeah..we know" feeling?

I'm sorry but that stuff is still too sensitive to talk about. You have to remember people make a career out of being on the lookout for tidbits of information that they can piece together.

 

This is why I won't talk about BVR tactics or specifics.

I kinda figured, but thanks anyway!

Who determines what load out to carry during a mission? I'm guessing mission planners but does the pilot have any say?

@neofightr, Thanks for the thread. Very interesting. Can I ask you a question? --snipped --

I cheated to post this questions. Visibility question answered in page 11.

But: if you had to pick out the most outstanding experience in a Hornet, what would that be? The one thing you remember the most.

My dad used to tell me about a pop up roll ahead that he used to do in the a-7 when they went to Fallon. He would be on the deck and then pull up and then roll inverted and pull through, tracking the target upside down. Then you would roll out to release the bombs. He aborted the first one when he saw the ground rushing up at him. Said they were a blast once you got the hang of it.

It's one of the *FIRST* things I tried with the Rift. Sooo much easier than doing it with TrackIR. :joystick:

But: if you had to pick out the most outstanding experience in a Hornet, what would that be? The one thing you remember the most.

Please read https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3201980&postcount=129

Sorry, I know every single word of this thread. :worthy:

LOL! I read that, but missed the last sentence.

Thanks a lot for sharing and providing insight into flight ops and the hornet.

I have a general question please.

Do you feel a difference in flight (minor ones) when you don't fly your assigned plane? Did you notice that one F18 flies differently than another?

Thanks a lot for sharing and providing insight into flight ops and the hornet.

I have a general question please.

Do you feel a difference in flight (minor ones) when you don't fly your assigned plane? Did you notice that one F18 flies differently than another?

Not really, unlike more simple times of aviation where pilots became more personal with each aircraft, the modern day jet are big complicated metal beasts that behave very much the same.

Squadron aircraft are not specifically assigned to pilots even though there have names on the side.

It was a treat when I did fly the plane which had my name on it but it was always random.

The only time you notice a difference is when something is off like when one plane I flew, the engines were not up to snuff and I was struggling to keep up in formation so naturally maintenance had to take a good look at it when I got back. Otherwise they all behave the same.

So..kind of an off the wall question..

 

Neofightr..did you ever have the desire (or opportunity) to do exchange tours? I know a few Tomcat pilots expressed a desire to go over and do a tour with the RAF in Tornados and such and a few Hornet pilots went over and spent time in Vipers and Eagles.

 

Also..the (yearly?) NSAWC re-blue..obviously necessary and important..did they ever feel old-hat..the "yeah yeah..we know" feeling?

I think almost all pilots would have loved a chance to fly another comparable performance jet in their career but it's just not practical so you had to be lucky in timing and fortune to get a good deal like that.

You always learned something new when revisiting courses. So much to remember.

Who determines what load out to carry during a mission? I'm guessing mission planners but does the pilot have any say?

The pilots are the mission planners at least for Hornet C pilots :thumbup:

The intel bubbas gave us the problem scenario and we determined how to solve the problem.

We went with established guidance we learned from tactical courses and publications and of course past experience.

First off, thank you, neofightr, for taking time out of your busy schedule to answer our many questions.

I have a question for you regarding the burble. Has there been any attempt that you know of to reduce or absolve altogether the burble? I'm sure this has been thought of in the many decades that aircraft carriers have been around, but would moving the island to the other side of the carrier do it? Thanks!!

Here is a good video showcasing the turbulence as you are about to touchdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhZnly5q--Y

 

It starts with old school footage but eventually shows modern footage.

 

at 3:14

--snippage--

 

Just before this hud footage you see what I believe is the inside of the E2 cockpit where you see the pilot moving that throttle like mad. This happens because of the turbulence raising and lower the craft from the ideal glideslope line. E2s are notorious for this because of it's huge wingspan and lift.

 

-snippage--

 

Even better E2 cockpit video at 4:30, notice all the work the pilot on the left is doing. Both pilots as you can see are stressed and focused because it's never ever easy. Anyone telling you otherwise is a liar.

I can't believe I haven't seen videos like this before. I had *NO* idea how much you have to move the throttle. Fascinating! Thanks for that

First off, thank you, neofightr, for taking time out of your busy schedule to answer our many questions.

 

I have a question for you regarding the burble. Has there been any attempt that you know of to reduce or absolve altogether the burble? I'm sure this has been thought of in the many decades that aircraft carriers have been around, but would moving the island to the other side of the carrier do it? Thanks!!

It's just never been a priority for Navy designers and since pilots seem to handle the burble just fine why bother. Over the years I have noticed an attempt with initial designs to reduce or eliminate the island all together but it never pans out.

The only ones that understand the stress and impact of the burble are the pilots and no one else. And since pilots aren't in charge of designing the future of naval ships the priorities won't change.

This line from the wiki on the Ford class spells out the priorities.

"Another major change is that the smaller, redesigned island will be further aft than those of older carriers. This shift creates deck space for a centralized rearming and refueling location, and thereby reduces the number of times that an aircraft will have to be moved after landing before it can be relaunched. Fewer aircraft movements require, in turn, fewer deck hands to accomplish them, reducing the size of the ship's crew and increasing sortie rate."

I have no idea if the new island placement will increase or decrease the burble effect. Time will tell if there is an adverse impact (probably won't be public if there are a lot more 1 wires and hook slaps than in the past).

many thanks neofightr for taking the time to answer all those questions and sharing your experience! there is nothing like first hand information from a real professionalI I am very grateful for that!

May I ask one more: briefings, debriefings, courses and other ground stuff aside, how many hours did you actually spent flying as a fighter pilot per year/month?

Here's some research regarding the burble, comparing Nimitz and Ford class carriers:

http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA527798

many thanks neofightr for taking the time to answer all those questions and sharing your experience! there is nothing like first hand information from a real professionalI I am very grateful for that!

 

May I ask one more: briefings, debriefings, courses and other ground stuff aside, how many hours did you actually spent flying as a fighter pilot per year/month?

I won't go into specifics (simply don't remember) but it was a lot of flying. We always hear of the robust training that US mil pilots have and it's true. This is due primarily to having great resources at our disposal. Suffice to say fighter(all mil. really) pilots are expected to be flying every day to include the weekends and virtually daily while on the carrier.

A lot of the skills learned from flying are perishable when given enough time away from the controls so pilots are expected to be flying a lot in their careers.

Here's some research regarding the burble, comparing Nimitz and Ford class carriers:

 

http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA527798

Nice find! It's great to see some serious research on the matter was done at my school years ago.

Keep in mind this was back in 2010 so who knows what they changed with the Ford since then.

I think people are going to be surprised at how nimble the Hornet is. Many don't know that the French rated it similar to the F-16 in STR and better in ITR when doing comparisons with their Mirage 2000.

Check out this video, One of the slickest done by pilots that I have ever seen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3qut-5MeEM

 

 

I have a lot more respect for the mirage since I just picked it up.

 

I am so envious of these guys in the video, just look at who comes to the party. Hah, and we US flying bubbas think we have the most fun with our flying, pfft.

That was an awesome video. Quite interesting times here up north, the Finnish air force is picking a successor to the F-18C (or is it F/A-18C now that they got bombs too?) and the Rafale is one of the contenders, as well as Gripen NG, F35, super bug and Eurofighter. Regardless of the pick, the Hornet seems to have been a good match for the FAF, even though they never did get to land it on a deck.

WOW! Lots of reading to do here, I skimmed through the 1st few pages, I am a tad anxious to get the Hornet myself. I see we have an Ex pilot here, very nice! Sounds like you were in about the same time frame as I. I was just watching some Youtube vids of carrier ops with FSX. I was a Yellow shirt on the top deck for 6 years on a Nuke. We had a few F-4s from time to time to bridle launch when I was 1st on the deck (Best Afterburner view you could see, 5 rings as I recall). Then the Tomcats, then the F-18's were coming aboard after my 1st stint. I recall a lot, and what was just 1 of the many fun challenges was trying to pull gear and clear the foul line just as the next guy was coming around after the ball call! Getting the one that just trapped across the foul line in De-Arm just before Paddles had to wave the guy in the grove off. I really didn't appreciate the flight deck until many years after I was gone. Good Times, and unfortunately seen my share of bad times,,,,

Just wanted to add a big THANK YOU to Neofightr for his insights. Great Stuff...

And I have to ask: Ever spend any time at NAF El Centro? I get to shoot over there two or three times a year and Hornet action is always the highlight although the Legacy birds are becoming as scarce as Hen's Teeth. :(

From a run over there a few days ago. VAQ-129 sent six fresh Growlers down for some work:

Seems that video link has broken, anyone know where to find it?

Just wanted to add a bit THANK YOU to Neofightr for his insights. Great Stuff...

 

And I have to ask: Ever spend any time at NAF El Centro? I get to shoot over there two or three times a year and Hornet action is always the highlight although the Legacy birds are becoming as scarce as Hen's Teeth. :(

 

From a run over there a few days ago. VAQ-129 sent six fresh Growlers down for some work:

Thanks for the kind words. I was in El Centro during my training days. I remember it quite well because we had some wicked winds (30+kts) down the runway one time. Really made approach interesting in my T45. I kept thinking so this is what it's like to land on the carrier (still was months away from my first CLP).

WOW! Lots of reading to do here, I skimmed through the 1st few pages, I am a tad anxious to get the Hornet myself. I see we have an Ex pilot here, very nice! Sounds like you were in about the same time frame as I. I was just watching some Youtube vids of carrier ops with FSX. I was a Yellow shirt on the top deck for 6 years on a Nuke. We had a few F-4s from time to time to bridle launch when I was 1st on the deck (Best Afterburner view you could see, 5 rings as I recall). Then the Tomcats, then the F-18's were coming aboard after my 1st stint. I recall a lot, and what was just 1 of the many fun challenges was trying to pull gear and clear the foul line just as the next guy was coming around after the ball call! Getting the one that just trapped across the foul line in De-Arm just before Paddles had to wave the guy in the grove off. I really didn't appreciate the flight deck until many years after I was gone. Good Times, and unfortunately seen my share of bad times,,,,

Yeah, you guys on the flight deck had a hard life. I know you worked your butts off just so we flyboys could do our jobs. So dangerous when the flight ops are going. I once saw a brown shirt run across the aft section with a jet just 10 seconds from touchdown. Needless to say he had an invite to go see the air boss that day.