Refueling in the Hornet

I have tried refueling many times without success and plan to keep trying. I can formation fly but once the probe is near - I get a case of the wobbles, I have looked at other posts and videos that say to trim first but trimming in the hornet seems so sluggish when at higher speeds - is trimming the best way? I would appreciate any tips and help. Thanks in advance.

Don't look at the basket but look at the reference points.

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I used to struggle with AAR but things are a little easier now that I experimented with the curves on the joystick. I found that there was a huge wobble with the pitch, the up and down motion seemed to be huge so I dialled in a curve of 25. The rolling motion doesn't need so much so I only dialled in about 18 or so. The curves slow the response down just enough although the plane can still throw a wobble every now and then if you're not concentrating. Persistant practice makes perfect. I could dial in more curve and make the joystick even less sensitive but then the joystick doesn't feel connected so much and the hornet feels sluggish. I think it's just a case of experimenting. I can even refuel off of the S3 now and keep up when it banks, which was always more of a challenge than the others tankers for me.

As far as trimming is concerned...in the hornet, I think the flight control computer counteracts any trim you try to put in. I've tried trimming and it doesn't seem to make any difference unless you're travelling below 250 knots, which is when the flight control system 'relaxes' it's control. I have refuelled to max without losing connection and the flight control system seems to keep it steady despite the extra weight from the fuel. Hope this is helpful.

Krazee S!

Try using your thumb and two fingers on the joystick right at the base of it. Smaller movements really help with the control or lack of over control.

I place the basket on the HUD navigation carrot and keep it there until I get close to the basket and then do my final attachment looking at the probe and basket. I know other say not to but I've been doing it this way for a long time (we used a Hornet Mod for a couple years). I successfully attach and stay attached every time.

Thanks for all the tips -i finally got case 1 landings on the carrier down, but this has been harder then anything the hornet has to throw at me so far

move to precontact, trim nose neutral at tanker's speed, extend your receiver, align nose with basket, drive straight at basket at +-1/2 kn above tanker speed. once in contact drive up past the basket's max extension and hang out for however long.

at what point are you having trouble exactly? drogue refueling (at least currently) is a million times easier than boom, at least in the hornet (harrier's receiver is really terrible so adds difficulty)

Might I chime in with a question about trimming the Hornet?

In my game Hornet always trims for 1G automatically, so if I point the TVW somewhere on the HUD, it simply stays there... Therefore I do not understand the advices about trimming - could anyone enlighten me please?

Fly formation of the refueling pod, not the basket. Guide it to the basket with your peripheral vision.

For what it’s worth, I’ve never used trim in the hornet for AAR....Harrier for sure...but never the Hornet. It self trims. Lots of little power changes , dampen out the stick movements. If you make a play for the basket you’re fixated and you’ll have a hard time holding it. Fly perfect form off the pod.

Use the plane as the main reference point, not the probe. Maybe try putting curves on X/Y axis (like 15-20).

And then practice, practice, practice and patience. Last week I was spending 2h/day practicing refuelling, on the first day I wanted to smash the screen, now I can connect in first or second attempt :)

I have to say Air to Air Refueling can be tough but after practice and lots of patience you will eventually get it. The F/A-18C is a lot easier then the AV-8B NA due to the refueling probe being out in the front.

At first I was frustrated like crazy but now I got it down. Not perfect but I am able to refuel and continue on with mission.

What others have been saying. It is very frustrating at first.

Avoid using trim. I don't use it all in the Hornet for AAR and can't think of anything worse when what you need are precise micro movements. The key is formation flying and throttle control. When I am in close the throttle is the main component for movement.

I think it's all a matter of personal likes, there is no right way to do it or wrong in some way of saying, in RL there is msotly one item/setting or sort of, in the Sim, we have so many different joysticks (just for exemple the one i am using, the X-56 Rhinos, coems with what, 4-5 different springs, to really stiff hard to move to stoff and i even modified one for helicpter flying with barely any resistance but just keesps it centered, so with one joystick you have 4-5 different behavior than 4-5 people can have different experience flying and different curves config), rudder pedals, so many possible combination that makes all our feelings different, even FPS can affect it, as someone with low FPS can have more issues than someone with smooth FPS etc... So i always say is, adjust the way you liek your flying, play with curves, try the settings for all you do, eg, myself i made a settings, that make smy life easier on runway as takeing off and landing for adjusting rudder, joystick axis, then i tried for precise ying, like AAR, landing or even dogfighting so the settings lives well for all ocasions, some of us likes nervous input, some less nervous like myself, i don't like pushing the stick on one side and the plane go nervous doing almost a full roll.

As for trim, it's all again personal taste, i personaly always trim the aircraft for the speed i am going when major changes or so, eg, i trim when i fly formation to the tanker before going into pre-contact, i trim when i'm going cruiser speed, or i trim when i get ready for a break at 800 kts or when i'm rollong out the break for landing, for the simple reasons, i love when the plane keeps an almost steady wing level flight, as when i go into mens or even play around the switches in cockpit or radio menu, the plan can go almost straight without the need of Autopilot. The only thing i do for AAR, is simply trim a bit nose down thant a perfect on speed so if i add throttle to adjsut my speed, i won't be going up easily and requires me to push forward the stick, i find it easier to have a bit pitch down and releasing the stick slowing to get below horizon FP than pushing the stick forward to avoid a balloning effet.

But again, that is how i always done it on no matter which one of all the AAR capable aircrafts in DCS.

As many says, PRactice, practice, practice, when something feels weird or not working, it's all a matter of thinking what can be done to adjust to it or get it better and again all is a matter of cuves as well, if you have a loose stick with normal curves, chances that if you move the stick a micro-millimiter while trying to do a 90 degree bank roll and you almways stop the roll at 185 degress passed inverted, well precise flying like AAR will always be a nightmare.

What tanker is OP using? I find a KC-135 to be considerably harder than a KC-130, with the S-3 being in the middle of the two..

Also what others said: look at a reference point rather than the basket, and take it slow..

Try to be a step or 2 ahead of your airframe.. it's a lot better to be proactive with the slow response of engines especially, but for stick movement likewise.

Pro tip for refueling.

Turn on the autopilot.

( its not a joke )

When you turn on the autopilot in the f18 then the controls become very slow, making it much more easy to make tiny adjustments for many people.

Tip 2.

fly up next to the tanker and match speed... remember the speed.

Trim the plane, and fly behind it..

Turn on auto pilot once lined up where the fuel hose extend.

Now you more or less most of the time only have to worry about the trust and not so much left/right/up/down motion. ;-)

tip 3..

Practice refueling with the hercules kc130 its a larger more stable plane.

Of course the real pilots don't use autopilot for tanking so if your goal is to face the same butt puckering situation the people do in reality, practice, practice, practice.

I've been trying to learn recently too, and have hated it with a passion up to this point. My problem has always been immediately after contact - I found it almost impossible to stay in a place where the hose would keep connected.

I had my first successful run tanking till full off the S-3 in the instant action today. What helped me a lot was jumping on the Aerobatics server, taking three bags so I had plenty of fuel to spare, and then finding the KC-130 tanker and just trying to fly formation with it - and every now and again topping off with fuel. I had enough fuel that I didn't *need* to get gas so I wasn't rushing myself, and it meant that once I was confident I was keeping formation I was confident I could keep myself in the right position on the hose. It was much, much easier than the instant action refuelling mission - for one, the KC-130 mostly flies straight, whereas the S-3 makes a turn basically as soon as you get to it, and it also just seems to be easier to keep formation with (though I'm not sure why). After a couple of hours doing that, I switched to the instant action and managed to stay connected until I was topped off (though it was a lot harder, and I was all over the shop).

I almost punched my monitor to be honest. I have same problem, connection to the tanker is not big problem but to maintained connection is very hard to do. I wish I could borrow 104th Maverick skill for a moment lol

... I switched to the instant action and managed to stay connected until I was topped off (though it was a lot harder, and I was all over the shop).

I've only taken gas from S3's so far and after some struggle initially (mostly with basket interaction) I'm doing pretty good now so... either I got used to it through practice or the S3 drivers got tired of giving me a hard time :bored:

Pro tip for refueling.

 

Turn on the autopilot.

( its not a joke )

You would have loved the FPAH mode in the Rhino. Although not used for refueling in RL it does miracles for stable flying. You point the nose where you want it and it stays there. Controls are dumbed down quite a bit but you still have to walk the throttles.

A few tips:

* Extend the airbrake. This gives you much finer control of your speed, so it's easier to stay connected to the tanker.

* When approacing the tanker, use the radar in gun-mode (master arm off) for accurate distance and approach speed info in the HUD.

* Practice. A lot!

I've only taken gas from S3's so far and after some struggle initially (mostly with basket interaction) I'm doing pretty good now so... either I got used to it through practice or the S3 drivers got tired of giving me a hard time :bored:

It definitely feels harder than the KC-130 - I'm not sure if the hose is shorter or something, but it feels like you've got a lot less room for error than with the KC-130.

I wonder if the folks who preach "just trim it bruh" is under the effect of a placebo, or are they just flying a different Hornet than me...

I also don't get why you would use the pitch trim.

Saying you should fly the real deal with no helpers is also not helpful unless the person has an extended and precise stick.

It helps to have some experience in formation flight. Learning to stay in the observation area first and then refueling is probably more effektive than to start with refueling first.

Get a bunch of fast jet pilots in the bar and they will eventually start talking about arse clenching AAR trips, AOA probes ripped off, Pitot probes bent, canopy scratches, baskets down intakes and the time the Frag sent them to a KC135 without basket attachment on Bluejays towline.

That’s why this is a 3 page thread already!

Tanking isn’t easy, you have to bring your A game especially when fuel is critical

You can get away with basket watching, but it is about formation on a big plane where your probe happens to go into the piece of sky where the basket is.

Real, life the bow wave moves it up and on to your probe, you can’t chase that

Real life, don’t use rudder, you will spokes and divert to Iceland (fuel permitting)...instead of arriving in Goose bay.

Real life, get the auth to enter into the sheets that you can bootleg a tanker for dry prods day and night ......if you can find one on a training towline.

I put a curve on my warthog, as I found it way too sensitive. Now I can get a full tank of gas :)

Just to reiterate previous advice. The key to tanking is:

Practice

Patience

EXTREMELY light touch on the controls near the basket

You have to overcome PIO (pilot induced oscillations) tendancy.