Convert energy advantage to angles advantage? - ED Forums


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Old 06-02-2018, 02:24 AM   #1
Nerd1000's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Default Convert energy advantage to angles advantage?

Maybe more of a general ACM question, but it's F-5 related:

I've been doing a lot of F-5 vs F-5 guns-only dogfight practice against the AI, and frankly getting my ass handed to me. I've successfully unlearned the 'bank & yank' maneuvering that was making me bleed all my airspeed and altitude, and can now fairly consistently get an advantage in both over the AI... but I can't convert that into a position where I can take a shot at him. The AI (presumably using his omniscience to look directly at my airspeed indicator and altimeter) always perfectly counters my attempts to get into a position where I can maneuver behind him, and within a turn or three he's on my six and I've bled all my hard-won energy trying to trade speed for turn rate. The only times I've beaten him so far are when we've ended up in a vertical rolling scissors (In this situation I can sometimes get behind him, at which point he generally can't shake me) or when he's made a mistake at low level and crashed.

Anyone have advice on how I might turn my energy into an attack position?
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:16 AM   #2
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No short answer for this question. AETCTTP11-1 has good info.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:45 AM   #3
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This is a Hornet video, but since you're doing similar aircraft combat, this video may help you get the idea with some good theory discussion in real time with what it looks like in the cockpit when you're saddling up for that gun shot.

I have a couple that may be of'll notice that my techniques are pretty sloppy, but so far I've made it work.

A couple against F-18's:

Against F-4's...probably ignore everything after about 4:30 if you're into guns only.\

Generally, you're gonna kinda go into lag pursuit, relax the G load as much as you can while keeping him evasive. The lower G load, if you can manage it, will allow you to keep your speed up until you need to melt the speed for angles to get into lead pursuit for the gun attack. If you're flying smoothly and he's evading, he'll bleed E and you won't, allowing you to close in.'s so fluid, it's hard to give clear rules to follow. Technically, flying lead pursuit tends to close distance (which is contrary to what I just said!) but since this also tends to load up your wings and bleed your E, you have to be judicious about when you do this.

Zilch79's YouTube Channel:
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Last edited by Zilch; 06-14-2018 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:54 AM   #4
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Gaining back energy in the F-5 is hard labour, so keeping it is most important. Using full burner and 15 AoA ( as marked by the white range on the AoA gauge ) yields a turn with no noticeable loss of airspeed.
I find that it's easier to deny plane of motion than it is to fight with turn rate against AI. When the AI inevitably goes high to try and evade, refusing to follow and making a flatter turn should still keep you in a relatively good position and maybe give a firing window.
You can also sucker the AI into rolling scissors, by mostly using rudder in your rolls to slow down and try to get the bandit in front. Worked for me even against a flanker, although I couldn't get a good firing solution after that.
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