sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mision start

I don't know what this is, but putting it ON makes the Spitfire fly in a close to normal manner, for me. Check my specs, there is no HOTAS.

What gives?

Sure there is, just not one set from one producer :D. I think they used the word in the menu as a short and handy synonym of "all physical controllers", after all, that's how it's pretty much used in "sim-slang" anyway.

Shouldn't make absolutely any difference in flying as long as you move all controls through full motion range before each takeoff, but maybe it affects FFB stick somehow. I never had one, so can't confirm.

This option affect controls (HOTAS , joy/throttle, button box, etc) that has ON-OFF switches - like those in Warthog throttle base, or the 2 "slider" switch in Cougar TQS.

If you assign a ON-OFF for example for landing gear, and leave the switch ON, when you start the mission the landing gear will retract.

You can test this with your joystick (that don't has ON-OFF toggle switches), assign one button for landing gear and hold this button pressed (ON) before loading the mission - with plane on ground.

With the "synchronize" option OFF nothing happens with landing gear.

With the "synchronize" option ON, the landing gear will retract at mission start - because the button are ON.

The purpose of this is avoid inverted ON-OFF switches relative to plane controls at mission start, but require a "HOTAS check list" before start the mission to avoid "accidents".

Synchronize does require some pre flight planning. Does the mission start hot? in flight? on the ramp? One needs switches set to get along with the state of the aircraft at mission start.

Everything off when spawning in free flight may find ign off, mags off, fuel valve off, fuel pump off when you enter mid flight.

With synchronize off, you can enter mid flight and simply cycle everything quickly and you'll keep flying

With synchronize on you can easily end up dead stick or yes, on your belly.

Gear on a button instead of a switch may be prudent and would prevent that.

This provokes a lot of thought. Thanks for bringing it up guys.

All my gear up/downs are momentary buttons at present.

Syncing controls actually syncs the in-game cockpit settings to what your controller is set. If the default setting in-game in the cockpit is for example to have flaps up, but your controller is set to have flaps down, when the mission starts, the in-cockpit settings will change to flaps down as if you had just now set them on your controller.

The problem with this working properly is that the default.lua mostly only offers controls for toggling a setting as if it were a keyboard key-press or a button switch.

However, many controllers, like the TM HOTAS have toggle switches, and there are two issues with this.

1. the toggle switches signal assertion in only one direction of toggle. Toggle it upward and it signals "On" (asserted); toggle it downward and it asserts no signal. The default.lua in moste cases however only reacts to an asserted state. So in the example above with flaps, if you have configured switch-X to 'flaps up' when the switch is toggled upward (asserted), that will work. However, when you toggle downward, the switch will become unasserted, which is telling the game nothing.

To make this work properly, you need to configure your default.lua for the controller in question to have both and asserted and unasserted state for the control in question.

In the Spitfire the default.lua has these controls configured out-of-the-box:

-- Flaps Lever
{                                                           down = device_commands.Button_9, cockpit_device_id = devices.CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.flaps_1'), category = _('Flight Control')},
{                                                           down = device_commands.Button_9, cockpit_device_id = devices.CONTROLS, value_down = 0.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.flaps_0'), category = _('Flight Control')},
{                                                           down = device_commands.Button_10, cockpit_device_id = devices.CONTROLS, value_down = 1.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.flaps'), category = _('Flight Control')},

These can be used in your setting for 'Spitfire Sim' to assign key-presses or switch activations to cause these in-cockpit settings while in a mission. Lets assume you have configured in 'Spitfire Sim' 'Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.flaps' to <F>, 'Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.flaps_1' to <G>, and 'Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.flaps_0' to <H>.

When you press <F>, what ever state you flaps are in, up or down, they will be changed to the other state. If they were up, they will go down; if they were down, they will go up.

Now, if you press <G>, if you flaps are up they will go down, but if they are down, nothing happens.

If you press <H>, if your flaps are down they will go up, but if they are already up, nothing will happens.

The problem is, that with a physical toggle switch, it is only asserted in one direction 'Up', and when switched down, there is on assertion to which the game can react, so nothing will happen.

To fix this, we need to have a control which does one thing when asserted, but another when NOT asserted, and you do this by giving a control a definition for both states:

--Custom Captain Orso Begin
{ down = device_commands.Button_9, up = device_commands.Button_9, cockpit_device_id = devices.CONTROLS, value_down = 0.0, value_up = 1.0, name = _('0HOTAS Flaps'), category = _('Flight Control')},
--Custom Captain Orso End

Now I can assign '0HOTAS Flaps' to a switch on my TM HOTAS Throttle. When the switch is 'Up' (asserted), the flaps will go up, and when 'Down' (unasserted) the flaps will go down.

2. There are some controls that do not have a game-control for both asserted and not asserted in the default.lua, but there is a solution to this too.

An example is in the P-51D the 'Battery' and 'Generator' switches. For these in the default.lua we only have these controls:

--Right Switch Panel
{down = device_commands.Button_2, cockpit_device_id  = devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL, value_down = 1.0,	 name = _('Battery'), category = _('Right Switch Panel')},
{down = device_commands.Button_4, cockpit_device_id  = devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL, value_down = 1.0,	 name = _('Generator'), category = _('Right Switch Panel')},

Even if you add 'value_up = 0.0' it is simply not recognized, because the 'device_commands.Button_2, cockpit_device_id' and 'device_commands.Button_4, cockpit_device_id' are not configured in the game to recognize 'value_up'. So how does it work when you click on the switch in-cockpit using your mouse? In-cockpit uses a different lua with different button names! which is in 'c:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\P-51D\Cockpit\Scripts\clickabledata.lua'. This is where everything you can manipulate in the cockpit with your mouse is defined, and here we find:

--Right Swich Panel
elements["pnt_102"] = default_2_position_tumb(_("Generator Disconnect"),devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL, device_commands.Button_3,102)
elements["pnt_102_1"] = default_1_position_tumb(_("Generator Connect") ,devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL,device_commands.Button_13,102,1,{1,1})
elements["pnt_102_0"] = default_1_position_tumb(_("Generator Disconnect") ,devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL,device_commands.Button_13,102,0,{0,0})

elements["pnt_103"] = default_2_position_tumb(_("Battery Disconnect"),devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL, device_commands.Button_1,103)
elements["pnt_103_1"] = default_1_position_tumb(_("Battery Connect") ,devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL,device_commands.Button_12,103,1,{1,1})
elements["pnt_103_0"] = default_1_position_tumb(_("Battery Disconnect") ,devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL,device_commands.Button_12,103,0,{0,0})

What interests us are the defice_commands.Buttons because these have the exact states for asserted and unasserted for us to use in our default.lua:

--Custom Captain Orso Begin
{down = device_commands.Button_12, up = device_commands.Button_12, cockpit_device_id  = devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL, value_down = 1.0,	value_up = 0.0, name = _('0HOTAS Battery'), category = _('Right Switch Panel')},
{down = device_commands.Button_13, up = device_commands.Button_13, cockpit_device_id  = devices.RIGHT_SWITCH_PANEL, value_down = 1.0,	value_up = 0.0, name = _('0HOTAS Generator'), category = _('Right Switch Panel')},
--Custom Captain Orso End

With these controller settings I can assign '0HOTAS Battery' and '0HOTAS Generator' to toggle switches on my TM HOTAS Throttle and the game is always synced with their settings when sync cockpit controls is implemented.

Hope this helps. If anything was unclear, feel free to ask.

I don't know what this is, but putting it ON makes the Spitfire fly in a close to normal manner, for me. Check my specs, there is no HOTAS.

 

What gives?

I don't know if it's just the power of suggestion but I have to agree. Much of the "wandering nose" is toned right down.

This makes gunnery and especially landing feel normal.

I'm using a CH Fighterstick, X52 throttle and Saitek pedals.

I don't know if it's just the power of suggestion but I have to agree. Much of the "wandering nose" is toned right down.

This makes gunnery and especially landing feel normal.

I'm using a CH Fighterstick, X52 throttle and Saitek pedals.

Hmm... how odd... Might have to enable this myself now too.. see what kind of difference it makes (if I can observe beyond the placebo).

Check my specs, there is no HOTAS.

Can be said that this parts configure a "HOTAS" - this concept is not brand/model related. :thumbup:

- MS FFB2 Stick

- Saitek Throttle/Prop/Mixture

- Cougar MFDs

Can be said that this parts configure a "HOTAS" - this concept is not brand/model related. :thumbup:

 

- MS FFB2 Stick

- Saitek Throttle/Prop/Mixture

- Cougar MFDs

Whether or not I, or anyone else has a "HOTAS", the important question is why does the "sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start" make the Spitfirefly better for me, and a few others.I had triedflying the Spitfire with an X-55 Rhino I have (but w/o the Sync cockpit... ON, didn't even know about it then), and the plane still flew terribly.

That is indeed the question Vinnie. Either way though thanks very much for posting it. It's made the Spit a pleasure to fly.

If this is the Spit the rest of you have been flying it's no wonder we've had a difference of opinion on how this bird handles.

That is indeed the question Vinnie. Either way though thanks very much for posting it. It's made the Spit a pleasure to fly.

 

If this is the Spit the rest of you have been flying it's no wonder we've had a difference of opinion on how this bird handles.

~S~

Can be said that this parts configure a "HOTAS" - this concept is not brand/model related. :thumbup:

 

- MS FFB2 Stick

- Saitek Throttle/Prop/Mixture

- Cougar MFDs

Yes exactly

HOTAS = Hands On Throttle And Stick

Whether or not I, or anyone else has a "HOTAS", the important question is why does the "sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start" make the Spitfirefly better for me, and a few others.I had triedflying the Spitfire with an X-55 Rhino I have (but w/o the Sync cockpit... ON, didn't even know about it then), and the plane still flew terribly.

I synched the controls yesterday to try it and went on to land the Spit 5 times in a row without scraping. That was in 1.5.7 though. I was 1 in 10 success before.

I will try it in 2 today but I think the difference (huge) in fps may be what hinders me in 2.

I'll tweak 2 a bit more but I'll probably wait till I can get some decent performance.

it is not that 2 is all that bad, it's just that 1 is that good.

Regardless, I think synching the controls is a better way to go than not as of reading and trying it via this post. Thanks guys.

testing.......

The option to sync cockpit controls at mission start is certainly an improvement and I have used it for quite some time. Unfortunately, the synch at mission start does not work for all controls all the time. An example (not from the Spit of course): I have a maintained 2-position switch configured for MW-50 in the German planes and it's always ON at mission start. Quite often however, when the mission has started, the related cockpit switch is OFF and I have killed the engine a couple of times because I didn't check. Similar things happen on other planes.

I'm not saying the option is bad; but don't trust it blindly!

Read sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mision start, Post #5. It explains why that happens, and how to eliminate it.

Read sync cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mision start, Post #5. It explains why that happens, and how to eliminate it.

I've read your post, and I have done a lot of editing in the default.lua, and in some cases added commands found in clickabledata, but that's not the problem I'm referring to. I'm talking about maintained ON/OFF switches in the cockpit bound to maintained ON/OFF switches on my throttle or button box.

If you configure your default.lua as I described, it should work.

If you tell me what switch your are trying to configure, and give me access to your modded default.lua I could have a look at it.

If you configure your default.lua as I described, it should work.

If you tell me what switch your are trying to configure, and give me access to your modded default.lua I could have a look at it.

I attach my default.lua for the Bf-109. You will see that I have created a fair number of single-switch 2-position commands. The added lines are all preceded by a line starting with something like "--added 1 line below...".

Two examples for commands that fail frequently (but not always) to sync:

'Dashboard UV Lights 2-Pos. ON/OFF'

'MW 50 Boost System 2-Pos ON/OFF'

default.lua

Relatively to Cpt.Orso files yours has inverted values for ON and OFF functions (value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0)

--added 1 line below HWF
{down = device_commands.Button_36, up = device_commands.Button_36, cockpit_device_id = devices.FUSEBOX, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('MW 50 Boost System 2-Pos ON/OFF'), category = _('Front Dash')},

This don't cause problems?

MW 50 switch in Fw 190 D-9 cockpit in down position (AUS) is OFF, the code above suggest ON - if your physical switch is intended to replicate the in game switch behavior.

Relatively to Cpt.Orso files yours has inverted values for ON and OFF functions (value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0)

...

MW 50 switch in Fw 190 D-9 cockpit in down position (AUS) is OFF, the code above suggest ON - if your physical switch is intended to replicate the in game switch behavior.

The meaning of "down" in the default.lua is that the switch is in the ON position or the button is pushed down, i.e. the contact is closed.

If you invert these then the switch in the cockpit will be OFF when the switch on your HOTAS or button box is ON. This would work but it would be confusing, at least for me.

So the values in my default.lua are correct.

Sorry for just getting back to you now.

In reading your default.lua, LeCuvier, it looks good to me, but it really depends on 2 things:

1. Which direction you wish your switch to be switched for MW 50 to be On; the other direction conversely being off.

2. If when your switch is flicked in the On direction the actual physical switch is electrically asserted* or not.

So, if you assign 'MW 50 Boost System 2-Pos ON/OFF' to a switch on your controller and have this switch Off (unasserted) and start a mission with the Bf-109 starting cold, is MW 50 Off?

If it is, then everything is as it should be, and if you start a mission with the MW 50 switch On, be it a cold, hot, or air start, MW 50 should start the mission being turned on.

If the the opposite is true, then you will have to exchange the value_down and value_up parameters with each other; ie 'value_down = 0.0, value_up = 1.0' . Then it should work as you wish it to work.

*With the example of a light switch, if when flicking it up the light goes on, then that is the asserted direction.

Sorry for just getting back to you now.

...

So, if you assign 'MW 50 Boost System 2-Pos ON/OFF' to a switch on your controller and have this switch Off (unasserted) and start a mission with the Bf-109 starting cold, is MW 50 Off?

JA

And with a warm or air start?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

And with a warm or air start?

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

The switches that need to be ON for the engine to run are ON regardless. Anything else would not allow a warm start.

Anyway we can end this discusion. The DCS convention for the .lua is "down" for contact closed => switch in "ON" position, and "up" is contact open => switch in OFF position. If you use it the other way around then the MW 50 switch on my HOTAS will be OFF when it's ON in the cockpit and vice versa, and I don't want that.

What remains is:

1. we have a bug in that the synchronization at mission start is not reliable.

2. there are some grey areas which we cannot verify because we don't know the details of the logic that DCS applies or intends to apply.

Yes, the 'Down' and 'Up' values can be viewed as if they were referring to keyboard keys. 'Down' means the key is being pressed and held down at that moment, and 'Up' means that the key has been released and has returned to its un-pressed state. It does not attempt to refer to the actual physical state of any switch on your controller; only their electrical (asserted/unasserted) states.

1. If you want to know what the default at-start setting is for any switch is, turn HOTAS-sync off and start a mission with that aircraft in that start-mode.

EG if you:

- have auto-sync turned on in you DCS-World settings

- setup your 'MW 50 Boost System 2-Pos ON/OFF' controls as described in your 'default.lua'

- have the switch you've assigned to 'MW 50 Boost System 2-Pos ON/OFF' set to 'Off'

- start a mission with air or runway start

as soon as the mission starts, the HOTAS-sync function will turn 'MW 50' off, with all consequence associated with it.

If you don't want that to happen, set the 'MW 50' switch to 'On' before mission start.

You seem to be insinuating, LeCuvier, that this is an incorrect behavior, because if your 'MW 50 Boost System 2-Pos ON/OFF' switch is set to Off when you start the mission, then you would not have been able to start the engine in the first place, or I don't understand what your issue is exactly.

2. For my part at least, one grey area is understanding what you mean by 'grey areas', but I've been know to be a bit dense at times :music_whistling:

EDIT: BTW, this is the same behavior as in the P-51D with the main fuel valve, Battery, and Generator switches, which I have set to HOTAS switches. If I haven't set them to 'On' before starting the mission, once I start the mission in the air or hot, the engine will simply shut down, unless I'm very quick about turning them on again while the engine is still turning.