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TM warthog joystick broken


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  • 3 weeks later...
post-17384-0-80806700-1456334746.jpg

 

... "not for sale". :D

 

Did you make the whole assembly? If so how much did it cost in materials and how much time did it take to make?

 

I've been interested in something like this for a while. There's a local machinist with a full shop who does work for really reasonable prices, I'm now debating taking him the articulation parts and asking can you make this.

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post-17384-0-80806700-1456334746.jpg

 

... "not for sale". :D

Hey Mate... did you fit it in the joystick and check... how good or bad is the difference ... was it a perfect fit...

Looks like an awesome job from the pic...

And yes if you could please post the dimensions on Shapeways...

 

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It can be done, I need drawings. But there could be problems with 3d printing, there is resolution in my drawing and in printer as well. Some DIYing would probably be necessary after production, like polishing.

 

Just post drawing here.

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This "Articulation Sphere" is not mine - I don't own a Warthog. :D

Was done by Russian guy (sergeype) and posted in IL-2 Forum, there - with his impressions:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2420-hotas-warthog-zamena-vnutrennego-sharnira/page-3#entry389113

 

@ Debolesis,

 

CAD drawings for "sphere" - done by Dooplet11:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=19825

 

In the topic are "sphere" done in other material, PTFE.

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OK, I uploaded this part to Shapeways.

 

as1_zpsdyqlwnh6.png

 

as2_zpsq03hc3e5.png

 

As you can see there are problems with resolution, even on renderers. I am not familiar with STEP file, but I think perfect sphere will be hard to accomplish without pro tools.

 

I can make this model available to public but I am not author, and I don't have permission from the author.

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The articulation joint looks good. I hope you realize that the 3d magnetic sensor will be confused by the extra metal messing with the magnetic fields. Even non ferrous metals will affect how the 3d hall sensor with detecting the target magnet. This is more than likely why thrustmaster did not use metal internals.


Edited by Jateu
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  • 7 months later...
I hope you realize that the 3d magnetic sensor will be confused by the extra metal messing with the magnetic fields. Even non ferrous metals will affect how the 3d hall sensor with detecting the target magnet. This is more than likely why thrustmaster did not use metal internals.

 

No, they use plastic because is more cheap for then to produce - what not necessarily mean more cheap to buy for end users.

 

To demystify this: sample of all metal rudder pedal with contactlees sensor based on magnetic field and not affected by ferrous or non ferrous metal:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2015/01/full-35902-95082-dsc_0803.jpg

 

Other: https://flightsimcontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/TRMK4_0-1024x768.jpg

 

Joystick gimbal "all metal" with contactless magnetic based sensor: http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_11_2015/post-979-0-56603300-1447304170.jpg

 

Other: http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2015/03/full-18924-99257-p1010126.jpg

 

;)


Edited by Sokol1_br
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  • 6 months later...

Any word on the Shapeways model or the CAD file to print our own? My second one just broke and now I'm scrambling.

System: Win10 Pro 64bit, Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 7 MB, Intel i& 8700K, Corsair H150i Pro Cooler, Corsair Vengeance LED DDR4 16GB, PNY NVidia 1070 GTX, Corsair MP500 & MP600 SSD, Soundblaster Audigy Rx, CM Mastercase H500P, Oculus Rift S, TM Warthogs.

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Sokol1_br, dont't you know, were there a successful trials to implement TMWH electronics (including axis) to mechanics on the last picture?

=WRAG=345

R7 5800X @ 4,8 GHz; DDR4 32Gb RAM (+32Gb swap); Radeon RX 6800 16Gb; 3840x2160; Win10-64

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OK, I uploaded this part to Shapeways.

 

as1_zpsdyqlwnh6.png

 

as2_zpsq03hc3e5.png

 

As you can see there are problems with resolution, even on renderers. I am not familiar with STEP file, but I think perfect sphere will be hard to accomplish without pro tools.

 

I can make this model available to public but I am not author, and I don't have permission from the author.

 

This thing need be done in CNC...

 

Just a little comment:

It doesn't matter if the sphere surface is not exactly round.

Contrary to what one might think, the round surface of the sphere is _not_ a contact area.

It is only round in order not to contact the inside of the outer sphere.

 

The only surfaces with actual contact are the two round holes for the axis plugs, and the elongated hole in the top, in which the rod holding the magnet slides.

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Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

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Correction to my last, it was NOT the sphere that broke this time. It was one of the little plastic posts that hold the magnet on. This is attached to the "Bell" above the articulation sphere.

 

So I'm going to try to temporarily superglue it and order a replacement from Thrustmaster.

 

---

 

That being said, thanks for posting that link to the Russian board. I signed up and was then able to download the file (after google translate lol). Then simply imported into AutoCAD123 and exported an STL. Then imported into Simplify3D and printed at 100% infil in ABS, turned out AMAZING. Didn't need any sanding just slight enlargement of the holes with the proper size drill bit and perfect fit.

 

 

So now I can make spares of those as they break. I'll post pics later and put it on Thingiverse with credit to the original author.

 

Note I would expect this ABS one to be a temp until a good one arrives lol.

System: Win10 Pro 64bit, Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 7 MB, Intel i& 8700K, Corsair H150i Pro Cooler, Corsair Vengeance LED DDR4 16GB, PNY NVidia 1070 GTX, Corsair MP500 & MP600 SSD, Soundblaster Audigy Rx, CM Mastercase H500P, Oculus Rift S, TM Warthogs.

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Just a little comment:

It doesn't matter if the sphere surface is not exactly round.

Contrary to what one might think, the round surface of the sphere is _not_ a contact area.

It is only round in order not to contact the inside of the outer sphere.

 

The only surfaces with actual contact are the two round holes for the axis plugs, and the elongated hole in the top, in which the rod holding the magnet slides.

 

You are correct, it does not need to be done in cnc, though it could be done that way it would be a waste of expensive machine time, especially since from a machining perspective (manual or cnc) this is a complicated part. It really just needs to be done by someone that understands the nuances of casting metal and appreciates the details of the implications since all metal shrinks and distorts various amounts when freezing back into a solid, and the effects need to be preemptively accounted for for the final result to be correct.

 

This means original patterns need to be slightly different than the final form, definitely in size but sometimes also shape to a degree, for instance how thin x-sections behave differently than thick ones. I am already working on this project, and once I have my own printer to work with (Shapeways is horrible for prototyping like this... it's expensive and takes a month to get your parts) I'll be able to go through the trial and error of finding the correct distortion to end up with the correct part after cooling. I happen to be years fluent in metal casting, and have been slowly tooling up for larger scale investment casting to do grips and such but I already have the tools to cast small parts like this in bronze, though I'm aiming to make new articulation spheres in pewter (reusable molds) if I can get away with it.

 

Pewter should be fine though, seeing as the ABS part is *almost* strong enough as is and pewter much stronger than ABS. The only alteration I'm going to do is putting a relief for wires on both sides of the slot, which will prevent people from putting it in 'backwards', which leads to pinched off wires.

 

There's no fix for the magnet plinth other than replacing the bell though, and there's no point in making that part out of metal since by that level of involvement one can make superior gimbals since the function of the design itself is questionable (yuuge center detente, 100% crosstalk between x/y axis, etc) to begin with.

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Well Thrustmaster responded, cannot order the bell, only the sphere assembly. So it's CA glue for now and then time to break out CAD.

 

I think part of the issue is when you are taking apart the stick, the magnet "tower" is very tight inside the sphere and when you pull it out is when you have a good chance of weakening or breaking it. Mine only had one of the posts that hold the magnet broken, the other was fine.

 

Second issue is they just melt the top of the posts to keep the magnet in place, so when you break the top melted part the magnet just falls into the assembly jamming things up.

 

Fun Fun.

System: Win10 Pro 64bit, Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 7 MB, Intel i& 8700K, Corsair H150i Pro Cooler, Corsair Vengeance LED DDR4 16GB, PNY NVidia 1070 GTX, Corsair MP500 & MP600 SSD, Soundblaster Audigy Rx, CM Mastercase H500P, Oculus Rift S, TM Warthogs.

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