DCS Navigation

I have seen numerous youtube videos but they all assume you are an expert and know what all this setting course in degrees and switching channels, NDB etc etc.

I need a tutorial for complete dummies and explain where all the figures come from, where to find them and how to implement them. In particular the F5 E as it's my favorite. Not asking for much eh ;-) but if anyone knows a tutorial for thick players like me it would be helpful.

Thank you.

I made an NDB nav video a little bit ago, It focuses on the MiG-15 and F-86. But NDB's are the same no matter what aircraft you're in. Here's a link to that video:

With the F-5, the NDB system it uses is the same as all the other planes EXCEPT for which NDB's it looks at. Unfortunately, the frequency range that the F-5 looks for are not same frequencies that the NDB's are in the Caucasus map. The best example I can think of is, imagine the settings on a radio (AM and FM) All the NDB's are tuned in for an AM radio station. But the F-5 can only look for FM stations. You can however, create your own "FM" NDB's in the mission editor though.

-Apache600

There's also TACAN, which the F-5 supports.

None of this frequency rubbish, just a 3 digit code (01X, 01Y, etc).

They're at most of the southern airports (Kouboleti, Kutaisi, Batumi, etc) but I'm not sure how they compare to NDB's in terms of availability and range.

Thank you Apache :-)

I really enjoy navigation. The F-5 is good fun once you get the basic concept of radials.

Do you know how to turn your radio TACAN on and dial in a TACAN station?

Turn the HSI knob?

I made this map and it might give you a basic idea. It is just a quick mock up so not totally accurate.

Of course you want to use visual aides as much as possible - landmarks, roads, crop circles.

You may need to fly higher to pick up the stations sometimes.

So what is going on in this map?

I go to the DCS editor and use their "ruler" tool to measure distances and the radial to certain spots (from TACANs and nav aides) along the map.

Lets do an example to better understand. Tried to simplify

1. To get to the #3 waypoint at the correct spot (Say I have already past waypoint #2 and heading north)
   
2. On the map we see Groom Lake is TACAN 18X
   (I turn the TACAN radio to 18X -
   you need to learn to turn on these radios correctly)
   
3. I turn the HSI knob to 297°
   
   
   
4. Note the box I put on the map: 297° 46NM
   (only TACANs give distance the other nav aides do not.)
   
5. Ok so I am flying somewhat north (I made it exactly north here for easier understanding) from waypoint #2
   
6. The HSI needle is pointing in the direct of the point I want to end up at not the direct I want to fly.
   
7. The middle part of the arrow line is telling me the how far and to what side of that radial I am off.
   
8. Fly until you see the arrow part of the needle and the middle part of the line match - Chase that middle line of the needle
   
9. If the middle line was lower than the arrow part it would mean I past the "radial"
   

I hope this is not just more confusing. I mocked these up pretty fast. It is quite possible I misunderstood the question if so sorry.

Thank you very much !! First of all I know how to set the TACAN channel to Groom Lake but where did the 297 (or whatever) degrees come from and how do you line yourself up to the runway, this is the bit I don't understand !!

No problem my friend. I hope I can help. At the end of the day once you get it figured out it adds a nice layer to your enjoyment and realism. (I hope)

So hopefully to answer 1st question: "but where did the 297"

Think of that TACAN as having a big circle around it with degrees. 360 degrees is a full circle. With north being 0°. The "Radial"

So when I arrived at waypoint 3 and I am flying north - if I was to look at the TACAN I would be looking left and my head would be turn to 297° if I had a big circle around my head.

See how the line passes through the TACAN at 297°

Like this:

The HSI looks like this at that point:

To dial in that 297 "Radial" in the HSI you turn the "CRS" knob #6 in the picture below until the #2 window reads 297:

The thing to remember is when that center line is to the right or left of the arrow line you want to chase it.

If center line is to the right as in the example from my 1st post keep flying towards it.

If it was to the left of that line that means you past it in that example.

So now we see the 297° came from a point on the map that I found using the DCS editor.

1. I went to "Mission Editor"
   
2. I got the tool "Use Ruler" on the left side (last tool) of the map in the editor.
   
3. I put my mouse pointer on the area #3 waypoint and clicked.
   
4. Holding the mouse button down I dragged a line to Groom Lake and it gave me the distance (NM - 47 miles) and direction "Radial" - 297°
   
5. 297° which is us looking out of the cockpit towards the TACAN.
   

Runway works the same I will draw up some stuff for that tomorrow and post it here for you.

No problem asking questions.

Currently the GOTM website is getting close to completion and will have easier ways to learn all about the F-5, navigation and a bunch of other stuff.

Brilliant and thank you and apache...means a lot to me when the community helps to this depth to help a fellow community member x

Mizzy

Hi Mizzy,

you can also leave/approach the airbase (Nellis in this example) with real charts, if you're on the Nevada map. Here two nice charts, which fits with the nav route by "need-to-know".

The description below the chart is self explanatory and the FYTTR departure is an easy IFR departure. Just enter the 12X TACAN, intercept radial 270° as described in the text and follow it until the FYTTR point.

Then fly the route postet by "need-to-know" and when you're RTB, use the chart below.

Here it goes: Set TACAN 12X and fly with the bearing 178° to Nellis AFB, until your HSI shows 25 NM. Then turn left, your bearing pointer should still pointing to Nellis with 21 NM range, hold it on the 3 o'clock position on your HSI.

When the bearing pointer points to bearing 205° (radial 025°), turn right and begin with your descend.

Kind regards,

Fire

NOTE: When your read numbers on the Chart like 12,500 (underlined), it means you should be at 12,500 ft. or above.

Great Info. Thanks chaps.

SD

What Fire is showing you is great stuff!

Sometimes those charts or Procedures are hard to understand without basic knowledge.

Let's start easy at the airport.

1. You can just use the mission editor and place your F-5 for a "Ramp Start".
   
2. You call the ATC and ask for taxi he is going to send you to Runway 3
   
3. Again we think of the direction or Radial as the direct we are looking. So runways are setup for the direction we look at the start or end (land) depending which way we are looking. Looking to take off we want to look in the direction of 030.
   
4. Time the ATC calls you to taxi to the runway (or if you already know) set your HSI to that direction. That way you get a visual idea of the runway direction. (I see all of the time in multi player guys taking off in wrong direction...sigh)
    
   
   
5. Here is the Airport:
   I circled the runway numbers. They leave off the zeros (just to confuse the nuggets)
    
   
   

Here it is simpler.

1. Here is a list and kinda hard to read NTTR map you see in the editor:
    
   
   

• Ok we have taken off and are flying the same heading of the runway.
   
  
   
  Now lets fly to another navaid. Lets head for Mormon Mesa 114.3 - Should be somewhat straight ahead after you take off.
  
• Since it is not a TACAN you need to configure your radios to pick it up. If you need help setting up radios on that let me know.
  *Tip - It is good to have the radios set before you take off it makes it easier.
  
• Now since there is no range or working "Needles" on other navaids you need to use the little arrow on the outside of the HSI compass. #13
   
  
  

• That little arrow will be a good friend for using on all of the other navaids on the map that are not TACANs.
  
• So radios all set and the little arrow pointing to Mormon Mesa 114.3 just fly towards the direction the little arrow is pointing.
  
• HSI should somewhat look like this (I might fly it tonight and get accurate pics just examples here):
  
   
  See no more range and the "Needles" just park themselves and are useless at this point. Use the little arrow on the outside.
  
• You know you have reached Mormon Mesa 114.3 when the little arrow becomes harder and harder to keep pointed in the right direction since you are so close.
  When you pass Mormon Mesa 114.3 the little arrow will twirl around and be behind you.
  
• Then we want to turn around and go back to the airport - Nellis
  
• Finding Nellis and getting lined up for the runway is much easier since it is a TACAN and you will get range information and the "Needles" work again to get you lined up correctly.
  

Let's tackle finding the airport and getting lined up in the next post from me.

great Stuff.

N.T.K. If you could go through the radio procedure you mentioned in the above post it would be fantastic.

Cheers

SD

great Stuff.

N.T.K. If you could go through the radio procedure you mentioned in the above post it would be fantastic.

 

Cheers

SD

Will do. I fly tonight and will take a few screen shots and post info here.

Cheers mate.

I am terrible at navigating and it's one of the things that really holds me back from enjoying the game.

I try to follow some of the posts and tutorials online but they assume that the person wathing or reading has a reasonable understanding of these things. Unfortunately I dont. LOL.

I tend to get confused with all the acronyms and such.

Seeing it layed out in an easy to understand and non jargon filled way like your and VJS 161 Fires' posts make it a lot less intimidating and easy to follow. So once again thanks to both of you for taking the time to make these posts.

Cheers

SD

Hey SD glad it is helping! I am glad someone wants to learn.

Here is the radio setup on the ramp at Nellis:

1. These are your "Presets" this way you can dial in Nellis easy. The numbers are on that little white slip to the left of the "Chan".
   You can find out your ATC with the airport map posted above. On that little white paper Nellis ATC is 254.0 - Preset #5
   
2. Turn this knob to "Both"
   
3. Turn this knob to "Preset" so the radio uses the #5 you dialed to above.
   
4. This is you TACAN radio turn it to "T/R". Use the little knobs to the left and dial in 12X the Nellis TACAN
   
5. This knob will be on TACAN by default - I suggest mapping this to a key since it is very handy to switch back and forth while flying (for reasons I will outline later)
   
6. Here we setup for the 114.3 navaid we fly to in the other post (yeah "T" is 1). Good to have this set before takeoff so no trying to fly and rotate all of those knobs.
   

Note the beep from the TACAN you set for Nellis will beep once you have your engines started use the "VOL" knob above 4 to turn it down.

Ok so you have been cleared by ATC to - Taxi

You have taxied to the active runway #3

You asked for permission to Take off before entering the runway - ATC at the moment is not working so it is redundant but you can follow procedures.

(Will help in multiplayer)

You are lined up with your HSI set to 030 as outlined in and earlier post above

You take off

Now you switch to the Navaid 114.3 you setup at the ramp and here is how:

1. So here you have already got your radio set 114.3
   
2. Turn this to ADF - That is what the navaid is call
   (Automatic Direction Finder)
   
3. Switch this off of "Preset" to "Manual" you are just telling it to use that 114.3 setting not the Nellis ATC
   
4. Switch this knob to "DF" (Direct Finder)
   

Note again the beeping starts if you have set everything up right and the navaid is in range or covered by mountains.

Use the "VOL" knob between 2 and 3 to turn it down -Note when you go back to Nellis to land and switch back to "Preset" you need to turn this "VOL" back up to hear the ATC.

So now radios set your HSIs little arrow will point to the navaid 114.3

Your sight picture:

Now the range and the "Needles" not pointing to the navaid but you can still use the "Needles" to point at it by spinning the "CRS" just to give you a quick reference.

So remember how I said mapping the knob that says "DF" and "TACAN" could help?

You can now use it to do quick checks back to Nellis TACAN.

Without switching any other knobs just turn it to "TACAN" (from "DF") and the HSI (Needles and little arrow) will now point back to Nellis and give you range information - the little arrow will rotate around behind you and point to Nellis too.

One more quick turn from "TACAN" back to "DF" and the little arrow now points back to the navaid 114.3.

This is great for using two navaids and getting a general idea where you are.

I usually keep the Groom Lake TACAN (18X) dialed in and do quick checks to see where it is (since it sits in the middle of the map) while flying.

XXXXXXXX-------Getting back to the landing runway----------XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Ok back on mission. You have arrived at 114.3. The little arrow spun around.

Hit the knob from "DF" to "TACAN". You already have dialed in 12X Nellis.

Now you want to spin the HSI "CRS" knob to the runway you want to land on. That landing runway will be runway 210 -ATC calls it 21. Spin the knob until 210 is in the upper right box on the HSI.

Here is your sight picture:

I flew off course to show you how to chase the needle.

Notice on the HSI 210 is dialed in the top right but the center Needle is way not lined up with the outer Needle and I am flying in the wrong direction according to the outer Needle and the little arrow.

Note the direction I am flying is always towards the very top of the dial.

(that little plane in the center is there to orientate you)

Sorry it is so fuzzy:

So I want to keep chasing that middle needle in the direction I am going. When the center line is in line with the outer needle I turn right and follow the lined up "Needles" directly to the runway.

By having the center Needle and the outer Needle lined up I know now I am centered up for the runway.

Sight picture: (see how the center Needle is a little right of the outer Needle - That is why I am flying a little to the right - chasing the center Needle

Since we are using only the TACAN 12X now we can put our top radios back to contact the ATC....and turn up that "VOL" knob again to hear them.

Sight picture:

1. Turn this back to "Both"
   
2. Turn this back to "Preset"
   

Notice how the HSI now shows the distance, The "Needles" line up, and we have 210 set.

Fly it on home now. You can contact ATC and let them know you are "Inbound"

Confused yet? Haha Just let me know.

To be honest we need to learn to fly the F-5 low and might not get any navaids to pick up on our radios down low so "Dead Reckoning" and reference points are our friends when we have nothing else picking up on the radios.

I will write a few ideas for navigating without radios and navigating while dogfighting in the next few days. :)

I wish this could be moved to the F-5 area of the Forum.

Might be more helpful to pilots there. :thumbup:

Two comments on your basics picture above in post #11.

First, it's not runway 210, though that's roughly the magnetic heading. It's runway 21. All runways have one or two digit identifiers, with optional letters for cases of parallel runways. L/R or L/C/R. When there are more than 3 runways with the same orientation, they'll add or subtract 1 from the runway number to distinguish them, as at KDEN.

Second, both VORTAC and TACAN stations *should* be able to provide both bearing and range to military radios. Whether this works in-game is a different story. Civilian VOR/DME hardware should be able to get bearing from VORs, and both bearing and range from VOR/DME and VORTAC installations. (VORTAC installations also include civilian DME equipment)

All four symbols can be seen here:

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/doppler-vhfomnidirerectionalrangedvor-150401050339-conversion-gate01/95/doppler-vhf-omni-directional-range-dvor-13-638.jpg?cb=1446359186

Thanks buddy for clarifying that. That is important information. :thumbup:

I was just making it super simple for guys without navigation/aviation knowledge.

I was just making it super simple for guys without navigation/aviation knowledge.

Thats me alright :D

Thanks Again Mate for taking the time to do this. Very informative will try your flight when I get a chance.

Cheers

SD

Great SD!

You will be a navigator in no time. Let me know if you have any questions.

"The greatest mistake a person can make in life is to be continually afraid you will make one."

Will Do mate. Looking forward to the next installment.

Rep Inbound

Cheers

SD

http://godsofthemachine.com/SPT-PDF/KISS%20Navigation%20in%20the%20F-5%20Opti2.pdf

Hey Guys,

So I was asked to make a PDF of this KISS navigation stuff so you guys could pick what you wanted, print it out and carry to the cockpit.

I have not done any fancy graphics or squadron plugs to save you ink.

Charly Owl's stuff is awesome for quickly learning your systems and I suggest getting that from the downloads section.

So fly on my friends and enjoy getting around and finding your airport.

Disclaimer: As other members have pointed out there is more to learn in order to understand the whys and hows of navigation. My little coarse here was only meant to give you a kickstarter in the KISS format.

Very useful info mate!! Thanks a lot!

You made my morning! You are very welcome.

You can however, create your own "FM" NDB's in the mission editor though.-Apache600

Where can we find HOW to create FM NDB's in the ME ?

Is that in the DCS Manual somewhere ? I couldn't find it. But I am deeply confused by the entire ME thing to begin with.

If anyone is aware of any Videos that illustrate this procedure ... by all means .. please share.

Thanks in Advance.