Radeon VII, what do you guys think ? - Page 4 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2019, 11:12 PM   #31
Headwarp
Member
 
Headwarp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 714
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiromachi View Post
I didnt previously put that much attention into the DLSS details but it appears that there are serious quality drawbacks in that tech, which basically result in lower picture quality in exchange of better performance:



Plus its introducing shimmering and jagged lines. All in all, I can tune graphics myself.

I'm going to get pretty hands on with it when the BFV patch comes.

In the FFXIV benchmark at 4K, TAA seems perhaps slightly sharper if you look really hard, but the difference between it and DLSS seems negligable to me just looking at the edges of the car model. I mean I really had to look to see the difference, which typical gameplay doesn't usually involve such inspection. For comparison the same benchmark using FXAA produced immediately noticeable jaggies and shimmers along the edges of various surfaces of the car model. But - 4k on my monitor is more like 2560x1440 + dsr so, hopefully BFV allows for DLSS at my native resolution where I'll have a better ability to gauge. Minimum framerates went from 60 to 80.. which I'm not scoffing at regarding 4k resolution.

So BFV has a resolution slider, which I just played with a bit in regards to the videos' mention of 1800p being upscaled to 4k via dlss.
The more you downscale said resolution the more you begin to notice jagged edges. I lowered it to 75 just to play around with raytracing at acceptable performance levels, and ultimately didn't like the experience. But, doing some math.. 1800p is 3200x1800, and 3200 is 83.3% of 3840 and 1800 is 83.3% of 2160. So, I dove in and took to the practice range and there is a visible difference between 83% and 100% of my native resolution. It's hard to describe, 17% less resolution again requires inspection to notice and I go from like 140-168fps to 160-188 fps. (dx12 no ray-traycing) The difference in this case was more noticeable than my experiences between TAA and DLSS in the FFXIV benchmark but tis a different game, running at a different aspect ratio and resolution. I guess what it boils down to is how well the AI neural network handles anti-aliasing for the upscaled image to retain the performance of said lower resolution, and how comparable to TAA it is.

I think it'll also be good to measure the performance of DLSS 2x and I hope it's an option in BFV, as it will basically be applying the effects of DLSS to my native resolution, and that should tell us what ngx and tensor are capable of in the regard of taking AA load off the back of the streaming processors.

nVidia claims at least 64 samples per rendered pixel for dlss. In DCS we have the option of 1.5 to 2 samples per rendered pixel currently. Looking at something like DSR which renders more pixels, rather than samples of pixels but has a similar effect on performance, goes up to 4x.

https://developer.nvidia.com/rtx/ngx


So I'll give that an honest shake with the upcoming BFV patch as I play with DLSS and share some hands on experience rather than continue to speculate.


Edit* My apologies in advance to forum mods - I'm more interested in the anti-aliasing specific features than I am the titles mentioned.

**another edit - I just wanted to state clearly, I'm glad AMD still has a dog in this fight. I don't think any of us were expecting this kind of performance from the next amd card.

RTX and DLSS were not the selling point of the 2080Ti for me. I'd held out long enough..and knew I'd be making a purchase when nvidia launched their next line. Spent the previous year watching 1080Ti's sell out and be listed for more than I paid for my 2080Ti. I'd held out long enough with a 980Ti @3440x1440 and recently picked up a VR headset that wanted more juice as well. At the same time I kept hearing about Deep Learning AI for professional use and I'm like "so.. what does this thing have use for in gaming?" . I bought the fastest option I could and while I was salty at the pricetag, I've recovered from the expense and am loving the crap out of my GPU. DLSS is kind of just an added surprise, and MSAA performnace ever since DCS went to deferred rendering IMO has been asking for a solution.

Personally, if AMD counters DLSS, both companies have their own version of Machine learning anti-aliasing, and if it offers an improvement over MSAA i'd hope both could find their way into the sim. Proprietary tech or not an fps boost is an fps boost, it's not ED's fault if one company's tech causes a player base to gravitate towards a brand. That's up to the brand and what they bring to the competition. I get not supporting hairworks, turfworks, and silly stuff like that. But when talking image quality and performance provided by a feature said company will do the brunt of the work to implement such.. YES PLEASE. Get on that "will support" list and be seen by every person who clicks on nvidia articles. I'll create my own thread for discussing DLSS, pending the chance to experience it. But that plea is really only if turns out to be good.

So pardon me for much interest in what AI enhanced graphics cards can bring to the table, and I'm sorry for that turning into the focus of my posts in this thread. I'm all for AMD sticking it to intel and nvidia even though I'm set on hardware for several years. There's always something better around the corner. My 8700k was outmatched by the 8086K in 9 months. By 9th gen after a year. It's an endless dance I don't think too much about as long as my needs are covered.
__________________
Win 10 pro 64bit i7 8700k @ 4.9ghz (all cores) - EVGA RTX 2080Ti XC Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 16CAS, 970 Evo 250Gb boot drive, pny 480gb sata 3 SSDx2, 4TB HDD - Acer Predator x34 (3440x1440@100hz), Samsung Odyssey WMR, - Peripherals = msffb2 for heli/prop planes, warthog (for jets), -Warthog throttle, Logitech G13, MFG Crosswinds

Last edited by Headwarp; 02-12-2019 at 08:54 AM.
Headwarp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 12:43 PM   #32
Jumbik
Member
 
Jumbik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 566
Default

I have Vega 64 and I'm playing DCS on High/Ultra in all settings in 1440p with no issues at all. I'm getting fps capped to my monitors refresh rate of 75Hz while in flight. At ground it's worse where I see dips down to 40-50 fps on busy missions but as I use Freesync it does not bothers me. I think I'm mainly CPU bound in DCS, i7 4790K is starting to show it's age even though it's very good CPU, running a lot of things in background is noticeable... like trackir, all sort of game store launchers, chrome etc.

So if Radeon VII is pure improvement on performance, power efficiency, memory bandwidth, its pure win for me. Playing with voltage on Vega is great and it will be even better on VII.
__________________
Do, or do not, there is no try.
--------------------------------------------------------
Sapphire Nitro+ Rx Vega 64, i7 4790K ... etc. etc.
Jumbik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 09:25 PM   #33
Headwarp
Member
 
Headwarp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 714
Default

Welp.. I don't need my own thread for DLSS based on my experiences with BFV. lol. It's pretty unimpressive.

For some reason they locked it to only work with ray-tracing. And in some instances, lowering my resolution to 83% without DLSS enabled actually looked slightly better, and pretty equal performance if not slightly better. . Both looked worse than my native resolution. But pretty much in line with dude's thoughts from the video i responded to in my previous post.

This still leaves the quesiton of DLSS 2x and the effects it might have on traditional performance and image quality. And still no way to test that.

But frankly.. so far, even with both ray traycing and dlss, they should not be a reason for buying a 20 series gpu. I do see 2060/2070 as decentmid-range options for now, but not for RTX features. I'll quit bugging you guys and ED with the thought of dlss unless nvidia actually impresses me in this regard. lol.

Nvidia's got some work ahead of them .. and while the ray-tracing thing is honestly kind of impressive from the perspective of the fact that it was "impossible" before now, and the reflections and shadows in a not so highly ray-traced game do show potential for something kind of awesome in the future.. it's going to take future hardware and cooperation from the development community to take it to a standard. I've stated in other threads that I see the 20 series as kind of a hybrid, with enough CUDA cores and speed to keep me satisfied with the performance of the 2080Ti for some time to come..and a taste of potential tech.

Benchmarks I'm seeing put the Radeon VII quite close to the 2080 and 1080Ti performance wise neck and neck @4k in some titles. 2080Ti is still kind of hold on to the performance lead, but $500-600 more? ehhh subjective. Not for most people. 3440x1440, or 4K? Ehhhhhh well you're obviously not shy about throwing money at hardware. Mayyybe, if you're unsatisfied with your performance with what you're using now and aren't starving anyone.

I saw some things watching benchmarks that might indicate the need for driver optimization on AMD's part and they might get more performance over all out of it yet. But the Radeon VII is rivaling the 1080TI and 2080 very closely at the moment. That being said - looking newegg I'm seeing RTX 2080's for $699.

It's going to be very interesting to see what AMD does for 2019. Seems nvidia, in trying to prep the world for ray-tracing, has allowed AMD to catch up.. and I'm currently way more impressed with that than RTX features lol. Especially given that they're putting it to intel as well with the upcoming ryzen 3000.
__________________
Win 10 pro 64bit i7 8700k @ 4.9ghz (all cores) - EVGA RTX 2080Ti XC Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 16CAS, 970 Evo 250Gb boot drive, pny 480gb sata 3 SSDx2, 4TB HDD - Acer Predator x34 (3440x1440@100hz), Samsung Odyssey WMR, - Peripherals = msffb2 for heli/prop planes, warthog (for jets), -Warthog throttle, Logitech G13, MFG Crosswinds

Last edited by Headwarp; 02-13-2019 at 09:31 PM.
Headwarp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 10:02 PM   #34
Jumbik
Member
 
Jumbik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 566
Default

Ray Tracing will not see any major adopting until consoles will support it, which requires AMD and Microsoft/Sony cooperation. From what I've seen so far, the main goal of new consoles is 4K/30-60fps, I do not see a way how they could combine that with ray tracing in mind.

It will probably take next generation (not refresh) of GPUs to handle that comfortably in 1440p. I'm all for it, ray tracing is the future of photo realistic graphics, but it will take time and mainly it will be good only for some games, you probably do not want RT in everything...
__________________
Do, or do not, there is no try.
--------------------------------------------------------
Sapphire Nitro+ Rx Vega 64, i7 4790K ... etc. etc.
Jumbik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 10:23 PM   #35
Headwarp
Member
 
Headwarp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 714
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbik View Post
Ray Tracing will not see any major adopting until consoles will support it, which requires AMD and Microsoft/Sony cooperation. From what I've seen so far, the main goal of new consoles is 4K/30-60fps, I do not see a way how they could combine that with ray tracing in mind.

It will probably take next generation (not refresh) of GPUs to handle that comfortably in 1440p. I'm all for it, ray tracing is the future of photo realistic graphics, but it will take time and mainly it will be good only for some games, you probably do not want RT in everything...
I could see it adding to most of the games I play, but yeah, with future hardware. There are definitely a few where it wouldn't matter at all.

Maybe 5-10 years from now. But ray-tracing perfromance is pretty much what I expected it to be like after the launch announcement. We're not there yet by any means imo. Still..more titles to adopt the tech to come so, we'll see if anybody else makes it work better.. I think that's going to take more of a ground up approach though, and still, future hardware.
__________________
Win 10 pro 64bit i7 8700k @ 4.9ghz (all cores) - EVGA RTX 2080Ti XC Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 16CAS, 970 Evo 250Gb boot drive, pny 480gb sata 3 SSDx2, 4TB HDD - Acer Predator x34 (3440x1440@100hz), Samsung Odyssey WMR, - Peripherals = msffb2 for heli/prop planes, warthog (for jets), -Warthog throttle, Logitech G13, MFG Crosswinds
Headwarp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 07:30 PM   #36
Pilotasso
Veteran
 
Pilotasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Working for IMF (not as an employee:] )
Posts: 11,012
Default

perhaps the best Radeon VII review so far:

__________________
http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif
My PC specs below:
Spoiler:
Case: Corsair 400C
PSU: SEASONIC 760W Platinum
CPU: AMD RYZEN 2700X @ 4.2Ghz
RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3533Mhz CL 15 CR=1T
MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4
GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X
Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO
Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red
HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals
Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P
Pilotasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:26 PM   #37
Jumbik
Member
 
Jumbik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotasso View Post
perhaps the best Radeon VII review so far:


He is spot on with the AMD drivers. They are SO GOOD. When I have switched from nvidia to AMD, it was the first thing that made me so satisfied with the switch.

Also how easy it is now to undervolt the cards with new drivers is just mind blowing.
__________________
Do, or do not, there is no try.
--------------------------------------------------------
Sapphire Nitro+ Rx Vega 64, i7 4790K ... etc. etc.
Jumbik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:40 PM   #38
cichlidfan
Veteran
 
cichlidfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Woodbridge,VA,USA
Posts: 19,536
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbik View Post
He is spot on with the AMD drivers. They are SO GOOD. When I have switched from nvidia to AMD, it was the first thing that made me so satisfied with the switch.

Also how easy it is now to undervolt the cards with new drivers is just mind blowing.
They must have hired a new team. IMHO, AMD drivers took forever to mature and sucked long after the card was released.
__________________
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1
cichlidfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:47 PM   #39
Jumbik
Member
 
Jumbik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cichlidfan View Post
They must have hired a new team. IMHO, AMD drivers took forever to mature and sucked long after the card was released.

No longer true, I have the Vega for a year now and I had only once a bad experience where clean installation of the drivers solved the problem. The drivers are really good now, they are always ready for new games also, new releases every month. The feature set and quality of life features are night and day compared to nvidia.

When I compare it to my experience with nvidia drivers when I had 980ti, I have bricked my computer 3 times before I just stopped installing new drivers altogether and opted only for those that I really needed. Maybe I have joined nvidia club in a bad year, I do not know, but it was awful. I had AMD graphic before that and had no problem but at that time I was not installing official drivers but Omega package, that does not exist anymore if I'm not mistaken.
__________________
Do, or do not, there is no try.
--------------------------------------------------------
Sapphire Nitro+ Rx Vega 64, i7 4790K ... etc. etc.
Jumbik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 10:17 PM   #40
Hiromachi
Member
 
Hiromachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 460
Default

I second that. Had Fury before this 1080Ti and my driver experience was very good. Quite frankly, after switching to nvidia I've considered driver side of things a downgrade.

My 1080Ti warranty will run out in June. If only Radeon 7 was a bit faster and had HDMI 2.1 I'd gladly dump 1080Ti and buy it.
__________________
AMD Ryzen 2700X @ 4.4 Ghz / Asus Crosshair VII X470 / 16 GB DDR4 3500 Mhz Cl14 / GTX 1080Ti @ 2010 Mhz core / Samsung 960 EVO M.2 SSD / Asus Strix Raid DLX / AOC AG352UCG / VIRPIL T-50CM / MFG Crosswinds / Audio Technica ATH-MSR7
http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic110693_1.gif
Hiromachi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:54 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.