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Old 02-02-2019, 06:29 AM   #11
Hekktor
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Save some $ for modules, too
Not that you end with hardware only, but you need to run on SU25 all time
And stuff like hotas, trackir, rudder pedals..
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:32 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Hekktor View Post
Save some $ for modules, too
Not that you end with hardware only, but you need to run on SU25 all time
And stuff like hotas, trackir, rudder pedals..
Fair point.. <--still waiting on extra cash to buy the Tomcat.
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Old 02-02-2019, 11:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CL30 View Post
Which 2080 Ti or clock level would you suggest I look at? Are the gains in DCS worth it versus a 2080?
I picked up XC Ultras direct from EVGA @ $1250 each. Prices are jacked up even on their site right now. The 2080 Ti is definitely a good card but really should be about $200 cheaper all around. Hopefully prices don't stay inflated for much longer. Nvidia got a little spanking on Turing card sales last quarter. Jensen Huang was very humble in his call to shareholders, which is rare for him.

Buy what you can afford. I can't speak to specific performance differences in the DCS engine for 2080 to 2080 Ti, but generally speaking you hit diminishing returns on the top end. You are paying a lot of dollars chasing those last couple frames per second. A 9600K/2070 is probably the best bang for buck right now. If you can afford faster it will go faster but it gets expensive real quick and will be obsolescent in 2020. If you are serious about the hobby I always recommend good controllers and peripherals that aren't subject to early adoption fees and Moore's law before putting too much into your rig. A good chair, a good monitor/flat panel, and HOTAS lasts longer. I just picked up some MFG crosswind pedals a few months ago and I don't think those will ever break.

The hybrid AiO cards will give you a lot of overclock headroom without all the hassle of a custom loop. I'm partial to EVGA for their transferable warranty and quality control. I've installed over 2 dozen EVGA cards in builds without a single RMA. I'm not a shill I swear, that's been my experience. I'm sure other AIB partners have similar QC as well.
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:42 PM   #14
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Thanks for the replies, guys. Very tough decision. Just trying to make sense of it all. And I do apologize as I've had a couple of threads with various PC questions...it's just that I don't know what I don't know. Ya know?

I am planning on building this PC, a HOTAS (Warthog probably), pedals, TrackIR (to start), and a head set. VR and a monitor will come later on. I decided I'll spend more for those listed peripherals now and continue using my current monitor until I figure out what I want - it's 1920x1080 60hz 27". I'll probably just have you guys give me some options based on the build I finalize, lol. I'm more confused than anything after my monitor thread!
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Old 02-05-2019, 11:46 PM   #15
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the 980Ti I upgraded from was a Black Edition. Thing didn't like being overclocked even +10Mhz, but other than that the GPU did it's job and offered 980Ti performance.

1545 mhz is the stock speed of the non founders edition 2080Ti from nvidia.

I will say @4.9ghz on my 8700k, I'm right on the edge of a CPU bottleneck with my 2080Ti in both VR and my 3440x1440 monitor in DCS, but in VR that's less important as for the time being, I'm limited to 45 fps with motion reprojection on anyway.

2080Ti is the fastest GPU on the market right now and likely to last longer before you consider your next upgrade.

If people aren't going to starve because of your decision to buy one, I don't see the harm in it But you might want a 4k monitor to go with it. =x or 3440x1440 seems to be juuuuust right, maybe perfect if i were to achieve a 5.2+GHz overclock of my cpu.
Sorry, but another question coming up. (I was reading back through this thread and this part in bold caught my eye. Don't know how I missed it earlier.)

My build is centered around a 9600k and a Z390 board (probably MSI Z390 MEG ACE). Would an OC'd 9600k have enough poop to drive a 2080 Ti? I would probably just stick with the best 2080 (non-Ti) if I had to spend more on the next tier of CPU. I have to draw the spending line somewhere, lol.

Again, monitor isn't decided, and I'll use my current one (in my reply prior to this post). Once I decide on my hardware, I'll have you guys recommend the best monitor to pair with it later on.



ETA: You know what, since it's getting close, I'll just post my preliminary build idea for you guys now. I always welcome your insight as this is my first PC build. I have a lot of RGB as I probably won't build another PC for some time and wanted something....fun.

CPU: i5-9600k
Cooler: Cooler Master - MasterLiquid ML360R RGB 66.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
MoBo: MSI - MEG Z390 ACE ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
RAM: Corsair - Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
Storage: TBD, probably a couple SSDs. Most likely OS and DCS on an M.2
GPU: TBD
Case: Cooler Master MasterBox MB530P
PSU: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply

Last edited by CL30; 02-05-2019 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:15 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by CL30 View Post
Sorry, but another question coming up. (I was reading back through this thread and this part in bold caught my eye. Don't know how I missed it earlier.)

My build is centered around a 9600k and a Z390 board (probably MSI Z390 MEG ACE). Would an OC'd 9600k have enough poop to drive a 2080 Ti? I would probably just stick with the best 2080 (non-Ti) if I had to spend more on the next tier of CPU. I have to draw the spending line somewhere, lol.

Again, monitor isn't decided, and I'll use my current one (in my reply prior to this post). Once I decide on my hardware, I'll have you guys recommend the best monitor to pair with it later on.



ETA: You know what, since it's getting close, I'll just post my preliminary build idea for you guys now. I always welcome your insight as this is my first PC build. I have a lot of RGB as I probably won't build another PC for some time and wanted something....fun.

CPU: i5-9600k
Cooler: Cooler Master - MasterLiquid ML360R RGB 66.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
MoBo: MSI - MEG Z390 ACE ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
RAM: Corsair - Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
Storage: TBD, probably a couple SSDs. Most likely OS and DCS on an M.2
GPU: TBD
Case: Cooler Master MasterBox MB530P
PSU: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
It's very dependent on display resolution. like I said @ 3440x1440 in DCS World I'm right on the edge of a bottlneck, meaning my gpu usage doesn't drop below 97%. If i were to use the same settings @ 2560x1440 i'd most certainly feel the effects of cpu limitations in dx11 titles.. and 1080P was so 900 series.

In VR it seems about like the same story. Using the Odyssey and WMR's motion reprojeciton indicator, both the light blue and dark blue squares appear, light blue indicating a cpu limitation, and dark blue indicating a gpu limitation. Even WMR software seems to be confused on where my bottleneck for DCS World is. ;P

That being said I'm usually at 45fps with motion reprojection on and neither my cpu or gpu get full usage due to the frame limit.

anything above 5ghz is on the extreme end of things for the time being, and that's not going to change between a 9600k and a 9900k imo, as 8th and 9th gen i5's are capable of decent overclocks.

That's just for now as it stands because DCS World is still using dx11 though. Vulkan and dx12 changes things, and we know vulkan implementation for DCS World is coming at some point in the future we just don't know when, and that SHOULD mean better over all usage of your CPU and gpu. You can see this demonstrated in various comparisons between the cards on youtube that use both dx11 and dx12 titles for benchmarks.

Buy the best you can afford, it will be the least limiting, and the longest lasting option in the long run. If the 2080Ti is just going to have too big an impact on your finances but the 2080 isn't.. you have your answer. Don't drive yourself crazy shopping for hardware. And you never know when you might fancy a 4k monitor as your main display and stumble upon another pc gaming title you might enjoy.

Who knows when and what can change while ED works on VR optimization and vulkan. If you got the dough for the best of the best you rule out most concerns for at least a couple generations of hardware. If you don't.. you'll probably still be very happy with the second best. Right now, even with the best hardware money can buy you're probably going to be at 45 FPS in VR with motion reprojection on for the time being.. faster hardware might allow for higher pixel density values + msaa 2x and a clearer image. 90FPS in all scenarios of DCS World VR, especially where it matters over cities and terrain and all the combat units around is currently unachievable to my knowledge.

We can continue giving you our opinions.. but it really boils down to your circumstances and your needs. This decision is on you

For my circumstances, monitor resolution, and VR, and not basing my choice on one specific title, I love my rig, including my stupidly expensive 2080Ti. It's overkill for my 100hz refresh rate @3440x1440 in a lot of cases.. and fits just right in others. I buy overkill and end up with a rig that lasts me for 3-6 years.
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Last edited by Headwarp; 02-06-2019 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:19 PM   #17
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isn’t it cheaper to buy the minimum you can actually use and take advantage of? buying what you can’t use for 18 months seems like a waste.

and it will be cheaper to buy later too... and you are likely to have more options to choose from.

future proofing is expensive, and rarely works.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:47 PM   #18
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isn’t it cheaper to buy the minimum you can actually use and take advantage of? buying what you can’t use for 18 months seems like a waste.

and it will be cheaper to buy later too... and you are likely to have more options to choose from.

future proofing is expensive, and rarely works.
yet 1080Ti's can only be found used for around the original MSRP. Or unopened listed for outrageous prices, in many cases minus a warranty.

It really boils down to personal value. I value going big and not having to think about stuff for awhile. If spending the money for my rig would have caused suffering on mine or someone else's behalf, I'd have compromised a bit. I also won't be considering any upgrades any time soon.. as it's an endless race.. new hardware will be released and developers will keep finding ways to hog those resources. It took me 6 generations of intel to upgrade my CPU, ram and motherboard, which, was the best I could afford at the time. It's not "future proofing" as much as it is having experienced the cycle of software development's response to hardware development. I buy hardware with the intention of using it until it's obsolete. It's also why I haven't spent more than $15 grand on vehicles in my lifetime of which I've owned several. Which, kind of helps with having extra cash for top tier hardware. As well as the decision not to add to the population of this overpopulated planet. Which i only mention, as an example of how not all of us have the same priorities.

It's really up to him to decide how much he values his $$ and time. Not everybody walks the same path. And as i mentioned.. i see 97-99% gpu usage in some cases.. perhaps not in others. I'm getting what I paid for. And i use my PC enough to justify the ends.

Some people are content with a 1024x768 4:3 screen. Others are still trying to find a solution to 8K gaming. Some people are content with a rift.. others want pimax or StarVR. One size fits all doesn't apply here. 'Tis subjective. I did say in one my responses to the OP that if he's considering a 2080Ti he might want a high resolution monitor to go with it. "Buy the best you can afford" and sometimes even "Hold out for a little extra cash for this over this" is the moral of any opinions I've shared in "i'm considering an ugprade" threads. Afford being whatever doesn't put you or loved ones in financial disaster or massive debts or negatively affect quality of life. . Doing so has worked out well for me personally, where passing up or not holding out for what I really want for something that saves me a buck has at times ended up costing more in the long run, and that's not limited to personal computers. At the same time, people can be content with less.

And back to future proofing.. I bought my 8700k when it was achieving the highest clock frequency out of the box that we'd seen to date. I waited another year for a gpu. And the gpu upgrade was mostly due to falling in love with my 21:9 and my 980Ti struggling. It's just a benefit that I also happen to think that when vulkan comes around, I'm more than prepared to enjoy the performance benefits from it. We'll have to see if by then this rig can pull 90fps minimum in DCS VR, it's just not happening with dx11 and today's hardware. For now I'm enjoying the benefit of supersampling for clarity. There's no way I was using the settings I am now in VR with a 900 series gpu. Which replaced a 680 4GB, that I'd probably have used up to the 10 series if again, not for this monitor. The 980Ti was just never enough for some newer titles at this res including DCS World. If I had waited for the 1080Ti to replace the 680, and stuck with 1080P before buying this monitor, I would still be using it rather than thinking about the 20 series at all. Now we have gpu's that target 4k, I'd be willing to bet money I'll use this hardware into 2023 and perhaps beyond unless Intel or AMD suddenly say something along the lines of "Hey this box in my hand is one cpu, with xx physical cores and clocks at 5.9-6.5ghz." And i'm inclined to think we'll see more dx12 or vulkan titles by then as well. It's only within the last few years that dx11 has been the goto api for game developers. Seems kind of familiar to the transition from dx9 to dx10. Dx11 happened so fast dx10 was completely skipped by many devs, but probably more to do with the benefit of a 64-bit api. DX12/Vulkan are still in the early stages of adoption, but have shown to offer significant performance increases as well as changing how we view cpu limitations. To top it off.. my best friend gets a 2500k + 980Ti rig for free because the effort to sell them isn't really worth it. System will still beast at 1080p, perhaps even 2560x1440

OP - whether you end up with a 2080Ti, 2080, maybe even a 2070, it's going to put a grin on your face compared to your 970. If you have a Best Buy near by their return policies are awesome. 14 days to return any product, unlike some retailers where you can only exchange if defective with no refund options. You can order an online only item and return it to a local store. Don't overthink it. Define your budget, whether or not time = saving money for more wiggle room. Do you need everything all at once? Or can you get by to spread the brunt of the investment out over a period of months? Don't make yourself uncomfortable financially. All the choices can get the head spinning. Just avoid the unauthorized retailers lol. The truly hard part is responding to the in-stock notices fast enough to beat them to it and get them at listed prices with full manufacturer's warranties. EVGA warranties are at least transferable afaik. Not all brands allow for that. You might want to call their customer service and double check that thought rather than quote me on that if you want a gpu so bad you'd pay scalper prices. A line I will not cross personally.

That black edition you were looking at isn't a bad option. It's not the fastest option but pretty close to it.. and far from the worst. The fact that you were eyeballing it, as well as a new 9th gen build says to me you can arrange the financial responsibilities of said purchase. I'd buy from best buy if possible if you have any doubt as EVGA store has a restocking fee for returns.
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Last edited by Headwarp; 02-06-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:11 AM   #19
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Sorry for the delayed response fellas, I was getting beat up in ground school and sim today. Recurrent week, bleh.

Headwarp and etherbattx, thank you both for taking the time to respond.

You're right, Headwarp, that as I was eyeing the 2080 Ti and 9600k means I can afford it, but my problem is exactly as you all have been saying- don't think too much about the hardware, lol. I keep reading and watching YT videos and am driving myself mad. I suppose if I had the funds already that I would've just decided what I wanted and bought it. Having these weeks/months to wait gives me ample time to research and second guess myself to death. Plus, I still have my peripherals and DCS modules to consider, so I'm weighing all of the avenues and at what point I'll buy them.

By the way, Headwarp, it (GPU) will DEFINITELY put a smile on my face as I don't have a 970...rather a GTX 560 SE. I'm not even playing DCS yet, haha. I'm long overdue for a new gaming PC.

I do have a Best Buy about a mile or two from me. I didn't realize I could buy online and have it shipped to store, but I guess they do that with everything else! If I can do that (and not get hit with sales tax), then that's a fantastic suggestion! I'll start looking over their website.

And yes, depending on how beefy of a graphics card I end up with, I'll want to buy a monitor to suit it. As you know, based on questions here and in my monitor thread, trying to figure out what kind of monitor/resolution to get before having my parts finalized has been tough for me. I'll save that for after it's settled. It'll be easier for me to say "I have this PC with these capabilities, and it's best for these monitors," lol. As a non-PC guy, I need hand-holding at times as figuring out the capabilities of my planned system ahead of time is tough, for me, anyway.

I've read through everything you guys have posted, and will keep re-reading. I appreciate it more than you guys know!
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:46 AM   #20
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Sorry for the delayed response fellas, I was getting beat up in ground school and sim today. Recurrent week, bleh.

Headwarp and etherbattx, thank you both for taking the time to respond.

You're right, Headwarp, that as I was eyeing the 2080 Ti and 9600k means I can afford it, but my problem is exactly as you all have been saying- don't think too much about the hardware, lol. I keep reading and watching YT videos and am driving myself mad. I suppose if I had the funds already that I would've just decided what I wanted and bought it. Having these weeks/months to wait gives me ample time to research and second guess myself to death. Plus, I still have my peripherals and DCS modules to consider, so I'm weighing all of the avenues and at what point I'll buy them.

By the way, Headwarp, it (GPU) will DEFINITELY put a smile on my face as I don't have a 970...rather a GTX 560 SE. I'm not even playing DCS yet, haha. I'm long overdue for a new gaming PC.

I do have a Best Buy about a mile or two from me. I didn't realize I could buy online and have it shipped to store, but I guess they do that with everything else! If I can do that (and not get hit with sales tax), then that's a fantastic suggestion! I'll start looking over their website.

And yes, depending on how beefy of a graphics card I end up with, I'll want to buy a monitor to suit it. As you know, based on questions here and in my monitor thread, trying to figure out what kind of monitor/resolution to get before having my parts finalized has been tough for me. I'll save that for after it's settled. It'll be easier for me to say "I have this PC with these capabilities, and it's best for these monitors," lol. As a non-PC guy, I need hand-holding at times as figuring out the capabilities of my planned system ahead of time is tough, for me, anyway.

I've read through everything you guys have posted, and will keep re-reading. I appreciate it more than you guys know!
I must've picked up the 970 from another thread or someone else's post. could've sworn i double checked before saying so.

1080Ti, 2080, and 2080Ti are all really aimed at 4K gaming, but the 2080Ti is the king of that realm performance wise at the moment. . But the extra gpu power allows for DSR or supersampling if available within a title, which equates about the same to increasing resolution when regarding performance.

I wouldn't buy a gpu for DSR or supersampling by any means, but it's a nice perk if you already have the extra gpu power.

5ghz CPU's being a bottleneck is mostly a concern with dx11 titles at 2560x1440 and lower in regards to 1080Ti/2080 or 2080Ti.

As far as DCS VR - the difference won't be horribly different with the the current state of the game. But ED Is both working on VR optimization and vulkan.. which could be singing a different story. Then again..who knows what kind of hardware will be out by the time that happens.

Start putting that $$ back. Make a decision when the hole burning in your pocket gets too hot.
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