Hog vs Hornet Tactics

How will tactics in the Hornet differ from those we use in the Warthog?

Do hornets fly any CAS? Or do they just sit above angels 15 and attack pre planned targets with GBUs?

A10: 60% of the time it works every time

F-18. Go straight really fast, if something gets in your way; turn

Hornets do a crapton of CAS.

Same tactics as an A-10? There are universal concepts that drive basic tactics like we employ in the sim, after all... :)

I would think it's basically... in a ground attack mission about the same without the extra loiter time. So in a hornet it's get in, hit your target and get out as fast as possible. With the A-10 it's a lot more loiter and search for targets... The hornet just has a lot more capability to do effective A2A, SEAD, and JSOW in addition to ground pounding.

So, in a typical DCS scenario I would imagine the Hornet would respond first (or at least get to the AO first), do it's SEAD and JSOW work to take out air defenses, then allow the more heavily armed A-10Cs to go in and do their work.

At least that's how I imagine things will work with my limited knowledge.

I guess it will be pretty different tactics between A-10 and F-18. The Hornet doesn't have the luxury of going slow and taking time to recon target area in detail.

As already mentioned, the typical "CAS" would be coming in mid altitudes, dropping a bomb or two on the designated target and egressing out before the plane runs out of fuel. Hornet has neither enough payload nor loiter time to get involved enough.

A nice source of information about CAS with the F-18C.

https://www.amazon.com/Hornets-Over-Kuwait-Jay-Stout/dp/1557508356

Worth reading.:thumbup:

As already mentioned, the typical "CAS" would be coming in mid altitudes, dropping a bomb or two on the designated target and egressing out before the plane runs out of fuel. Hornet has neither enough payload nor loiter time to get involved enough.

So in a hornet it's get in, hit your target and get out as fast as possible. With the A-10 it's a lot more loiter and search for targets...

So ingress at medium altitude, do SEAD or drop a few bombs, and then RTB. I don't know if that sounds very appealing to me, sounds like most of the time you're just flying to and from base. I enjoy the loiter over the AO.

If it's anything like an F-16 mission you'll go in and drop bombs at 20k and then see what A2A you can find or maybe fight your way back to base when you don't want to find any A2A.

Lot's of other type missions. None of them as boring as the A-10C.

So ingress at medium altitude, do SEAD or drop a few bombs, and then RTB. I don't know if that sounds very appealing to me, sounds like most of the time you're just flying to and from base. I enjoy the loiter over the AO.

I felt the same way when I was younger. Go to the mall...hang out all day, kinda just buzz around look at all the things. Now that I'm older...it's more like; know where I'm going, get there, get in, get out. :thumbup:

Lot's of other type missions. None of them as boring as the A-10C.

How dare you! :lol:

 

Lot's of other type missions. None of them as boring as the A-10C.

Your making your personal opinion sound like a statement. I don't think anybody asked about it. We've already seen too much of it.

The F-18's ground pounding would be more of a "2pac drive by" style. You go in, shoot till empty, run away :D

In the small maps we have in DCS you might still be able to loiter for long enough that you can do the kind of vulturing you do in the A-10C if you take some extra fuel

Plus there's always AAR

In the small maps we have in DCS you might still be able to loiter for long enough that you can do the kind of vulturing you do in the A-10C if you take some extra fuel

 

Plus there's always AAR

The hornets loiter capability isn't the best... but it also isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

I've predicted (using one of the NATOPs manuals) that if you fly in a fuel efficient manner, you can fly ~310 nm with a loiter time of 15 mins comfortably and 30 Max and make it back to base very near to the regulatory amount of fuel to have left (~1500lbs safe, 1000 getting dangerous). And that's with a heavy payload.

That's cruising slow and efficient for the target area, which you wouldn't do if there were bad air defenses.

But of course, if there were, then the hornet should be doing SEAD not CAS.

The hornets loiter capability isn't the best... but it also isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

I've predicted (using one of the NATOPs manuals) that if you fly in a fuel efficient manner, you can fly ~310 nm with a loiter time of 15 mins comfortably and 30 Max and make it back to base very near to the regulatory amount of fuel to have left (~1500lbs safe, 1000 getting dangerous). And that's with a heavy payload.

 

That's cruising slow and efficient for the target area, which you wouldn't do if there were bad air defenses.

But of course, if there were, then the hornet should be doing SEAD not CAS.

Excellent, and most missions in the Caucasus have a "commute" of not more than 100nm

How long does that give you to loiter?

Excellent, and most missions in the Caucasus have a "commute" of not more than 100nm

 

How long does that give you to loiter?

Depends on how fast you fly. The F-18C at full afterburner can use all of its fuel in just under 15 mins....

Depends on how fast you fly. The F-18C at full afterburner can use all of its fuel in just under 15 mins....

Well if you're planning a loiter, I would envisage that you would plan to conserve fuel in the early part of the mission

Your making your personal opinion sound like a statement. I don't think anybody asked about it. We've already seen too much of it.

We've seen too much of your trolling too. We're all entitled to give our opinion without being attacked by guys like you. Of course, it's my opinion. I gave it. Do I need to add IMHO at the end of all my posts to satisfy you?

You should learn to add to a thread besides attacking others, or do you think we don't notice all your posts?

I'd also make an argument that in DCS environment loiter time will not be too much of an issue. We're quite trigger happy community here and Hornet can carry only so many weapons unlike our dear Hawg :) Best case scenario for CAS is like two Mavericks and two guided bombs. How much time do you need to efficiently get rid of them? Probably less than 10 minutes and then you're off. Of course, could use a bit of strafing against soft targets, but you ain't got the 1000+ round capacity of the A-10 either.

So yeah, no Rambo style with 6 mavericks and a blast of CBU-97s that allow dispatching entire army of a small country :)

Without wingtanks I envision everyone to either carry 4 Mavs, 2 Mavs and 4 GBU-12 or 8 GBU-12 as a standard CAS loadout.

However, I´d be more interested in doing mixxed SEAD/CAP missions, Strike missions and suprise attacks with SLAM-ER.

The amount of time I´d just do CAS is probably minimal.

And yes, you can probably stay in the AO for a long time if you fly fuel efficient. Most targets are not super far away in most missions.

Excellent, and most missions in the Caucasus have a "commute" of not more than 100nm

 

How long does that give you to loiter?

It's pretty involved to go back and recalculate that.

But just guessing by how much extra fuel you would have available, I'd say nearly an hour.

How will tactics in the Hornet differ from those we use in the Warthog?

 

Do hornets fly any CAS? Or do they just sit above angels 15 and attack pre planned targets with GBUs?

Whole hornets will be there loitering and being available for CAS, it is more limited to specific time range with pre-defined ground troops movements.

So Hornets are more about going in and getting out than actually giving a close-air-support as "protectors" that A-10 or Su-25 can do.

With A-10 you are more there just flying around your troops and being overwatch, when the call comes, you go in and close.

That must be one of the reasons why Marines loves so much their A-10 as the fellow marines are close-by and ready to act quickly.

If putting it in levels:

Angels

F-15

--

F-18

--

--

-- (Su-25)

A-10

--

-- (Mi-24)

AH-64/AH-1

--

Ground-Troops

Ground

The F-18 is more like a Viggen but just with better targeting systems and Air-to-Air capability.

So yeah, no Rambo style with 6 mavericks and a blast of CBU-97s that allow dispatching entire army of a small country :)

WHat? Nooooo!!!!

Of course you need to have SOME weapons to be a SOME use!! :lol:

If you can't level at least a mechanized infantry company in one sortie, then you are no use :D

So F-18 will not be there to replace A-10, just like it doesn't replace it in real world... And just like A-10 ain't a missile truck in real world either.

Fighter/bomber strike aircraft.

Fight your wat in, bomb, fight your way out.

Way better than a10

Fighter/bomber strike aircraft.

Fight your wat in, bomb, fight your way out.

Way better than a10

A-10 ain't strike fighter... It is attack aircraft.

Strike happens behind lines or very specific target, attack happens at front line to multiple targets.

Both aircrafts are for different roles, where the other is just a compromise to offer some capabilities of the task another is totally designed.

SEAD? Don't even consider sending a A-10.

Front line troops protection etc? Don't think about sending F/A-18 there if you have A-10 available.

He's talking about the F/A-18C.