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Old 12-18-2012, 08:29 AM   #61
Namenlos Ein
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Decommission of Belarusian AF Su-27s.



http://topwar.ru/22111-su-27-snyaty-...elorussii.html — in Russian.

Interesting…
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&hl=en&ct=clnk
Quote:
August 30, 2010

Iceland’s Keflavik airbase, a bulwark of western security during the cold war, would be home to two squadrons of Russian-made fighter jets under plans being considered by Reykjavik.

The Icelandic government is in talks about renting the airbase to a private company that says it is buying up to €1.2bn ($1.5bn) of Sukhoi warplanes from Belarus for use as a mock enemy in military training exercises.

ECA Program says it has already signed up five air forces keen to test their pilots and jets against an aircraft most commonly flown by the Russian and Chinese militaries.

“We are the car rental service of the military training world,” said Melville ten Cate, ECA’s Dutch co-founder.

According to Mr ten Cate, ECA has agreed to buy 15 Sukhoi Su-27 “Flanker” jets from BelTechExport, a Belarusian arms export company, with the option of 18 more. If completed, it would be the biggest sale of fighter aircraft to a private buyer and the first large-scale import of Russian-made warplanes into a Nato country.

Iceland’s government has so far taken ECA seriously – so much so that some of the end-user certificates needed to import the jets have already been issued, according to officials.

One official said the government was close to giving conditional approval to ECA. Reykjavik would consult Nato allies before a final go-ahead, he added.

Yet, much about the deal is shrouded in mystery and several defence industry officials have questioned its credibility – including some that Mr ten Cate says are involved.

BelTechExport denied knowledge of the deal on Monday, having previously confirmed it to the Financial Times. An official at the Belarusian agency responsible for approving arms exports said he was not aware of it and Rosoboronexport, the Russian state arms exporter, denied involvement.

According to Mr ten Cate, the aircraft were originally made in Russia and will be “upgraded” in Belarus, with the first delivery in October.

He said financing was coming from investors in the Middle East and Asia and, possibly, a future initial public offering. People at PwC, the professional services firm, and Hogan & Lovell, the US law firm, confirmed that ECA had been in contact about a potential flotation but said plans were at an early stage.

The proposals have already caused controversy in a country with no armed forces of its own. Critics portray ECA as a mysterious “private army” stepping into the security vacuum left when US forces vacated Keflavik in 2006.

Mr ten Cate said the jets would not be equipped to carry live ammunition and no training would take place in Icelandic airspace.
Reykjavik split on plans for Russian jets
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:29 PM   #62
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What will replace those flankers now?
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:50 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotasso View Post
What will replace those flankers now?
Belarus may buy outdated Su-30 fighters from Russia
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The first 10 jets have been recently delivered to an aircraft plant in Baranovichi for a deep overhaul to the Su-30KN version, Kommersant cited a source close to Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport. The remaining eight are expected to arrive in November.
Three Su-30K at Baranovichi aircraft repair plant #558, November 2012.

http://pilot.strizhi.info/2012/11/11/10335
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:00 PM   #64
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Very lucky for Belarus they have this deal they can afford!
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:12 PM   #65
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ADAM does away with rockets: http://www.businessinsider.com/lockh...efense-2012-12
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:44 PM   #66
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Oman buys Typhoons: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6cef8...#axzz2FcomvzGu
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:53 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcos View Post
Only if it wants a good beating.




But I hear what you're saying, neither the F-16 nor F-22 can be described as 'poor dogfighters', they're just not the best. How some analyst has randomly concluded that an Su-30MKI with a lower TWR (even with only 15,000lb of internal fuel) and higher wing loading will beat an F-22 is beyond me. Then we have the 'clubbing baby seals' link which has already been refuted in another thread.

Otherwise I agree with what you're saying. Stealth will win BVR and whilst the F-35 doesn't appear to have a great TWR (depending on whether it gets the 50,000lbf engine or not), it carries way more fuel than most aircraft of it's size/weight. Within the likes of NATO you've got the F-22, F-35, Typhoon and Rafale. The stealth planes can AMRAAM aircraft BVR and go up front and illuminate enemy aircraft for the Meteors of the Typhoon and Rafale while they keep a safe distance. Then the Typhoons and Rafales can go in and finish the meal.

They didn't waste x billion dollars developing stealth aircraft because putting F119s in an F-15C could have yielded a better air superiority fighter. Stealth does actually work, which is why both Russia and China are also developing stealth planes.
The biggest issue for the raptor is not having helmet mounted sight and AIM-9x for dogfighting.
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:06 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Namenlos Ein View Post
It sounds too good to be true, look at what happened when Peru got their mig-29s... long story short, they purchased great second hand migs from Belorussia for a great price and received airplanes with irregular maintenance logbooks and no spares, two crashed shortly after purchase. The guy who made the deal turned out to be a crook who stole millions and even sold weapons to terrorist groups in Colombia. Peru had to ask russia for help, the russians refused to help unless Peru purchased new aircrafts and paid some money that they owed to Russia, at the end that great deal ended up costing them lots lots of money.
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:28 AM   #69
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That encounter was pure and fair (opponents start with known high aspect position, ie. head to head) and they pretty much got even kills - the Raptors were performing their rmin-the-ASRAAM maneuver when entering the fight anyway.

But yes, that is correct, the biggest issue for the dogfight is that. But it turns out that when you can enter the dogfight undetected it might not be quite as big a deal, especially when a buddy is watching your tail. It does take away some merge options though.

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The biggest issue for the raptor is not having helmet mounted sight and AIM-9x for dogfighting.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:45 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoyan View Post
The biggest issue for the raptor is not having helmet mounted sight and AIM-9x for dogfighting.
And having a really intensive maintenance program that makes it almost impossible to deploy anywhere.
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