Poll: How do you think the F/A-18C will stack up against the Mirage?

How do you think the F/A-18C will perform against the Mirage M2000C? Will it absolutely destroy it in BVR only to fall apart in WVR? Or maybe it will be on par in both BVR and WVR. I don't know what missiles the F/A-18 gets (and I understand the BVR and WVR effectiveness hinge on this) but if it does not get fox-3s, will it be more fair with the Mirage?

What do you mean by fair? The f18 will have 120s and 9X ... Very dangerous BVR and wvr.

The Hornet is getting FOX 3's, just not right away. Once the AIM-9X is available it will dominate close-in.

Not to mention overall Superior Situational awareness , because Of Link 16. ( at least when it does become available)

Why are the only options either lose or obliterate? It will have a slight advantage in both but not obliterate.

It seems to me obvious that the delta m2000 is a winner in dogfight due to "infinite" AOA taking capability (it just has to pay by loosing knots).... and obvious to that m2000 fox3 are wet firecrackers...

at initial early access, the Hornet will have a better advantage then the Mirage in BVR, and in WVR considering the Hornet's nose point authority, iunno how that will turn out. However at full release, the F/A-18 will be ahead of the Mirage, AMRAAM, AIM-9X, JHMCS WEW.

Considering the post on this forum from an actual F/A-18C driver who said performance drops off fairly rapidly as you load up the stores, I'd hedge that the M2000 would probably be better off in WVR within DCS where people aren't fighting with lightly loaded aircraft.

BVR will be the Hornet once it gets all its toys.

Considering the post on this forum from an actual F/A-18C driver who said performance drops off fairly rapidly as you load up the stores, I'd hedge that the M2000 would probably be better off in WVR within DCS where people aren't fighting with lightly loaded aircraft.

 

BVR will be the Hornet once it gets all its toys.

Well, to be fair the M2000 performance drops off a lot fully loaded as well.

The Hornet will dominate in BVR because of it's SA, AMRAAMs, and a whole host of things it can do when it comes to ECM. WVR, performance wise, they will be an almost equal match, the F/A-18 is highly maneuverable, but i think it will have a bit of an advantage due to JHCMS and Aim-9X.

Considering the post on this forum from an actual F/A-18C driver who said performance drops off fairly rapidly as you load up the stores, I'd hedge that the M2000 would probably be better off in WVR within DCS where people aren't fighting with lightly loaded aircraft.

 

BVR will be the Hornet once it gets all its toys.

Actually it's still be the hornet in wvr. Mirage like any plane is also affected by external stores as someone else pointed out. But the f18 will not have to have it's nose pointed at mirage to get a good ir tone. It will eventually have working jhmcs and the aim9x. Hornet drivers will have the luxury of up to 180 degrees off boresight aquisition. The aim9x is designed to have thrust hectoring motors for off boresight shots and is far more resistant to flares than the aim9m to the point it may as well be immune to them. That's why the hornet will still have the edge over m2000c in wvr

Actually it's still be the hornet in wvr. Mirage like any plane is also affected by external stores as someone else pointed out. But the f18 will not have to have it's nose pointed at mirage to get a good ir tone. It will eventually have working jhmcs and the aim9x. Hornet drivers will have the luxury of up to 180 degrees off boresight aquisition. The aim9x is designed to have thrust hectoring motors for off boresight shots and is far more resistant to flares than the aim9m to the point it may as well be immune to them. That's why the hornet will still have the edge over m2000c in wvr

Let's hope they don't simulate the dirty flares :) or hornet riders will have to stick with mikes :|

Doesn't matter, it doesn't eat flares, be they dirty or extra virgin cold-pressed olive oil. Right now the only (known to us) way to have that seeker lose track with a flare is to have an area flare end up exactly between missile and target in very, veeeeery narrow circumstances.

Let's hope they don't simulate the dirty flares :) or hornet riders will have to stick with mikes :|

Doesn't matter, it doesn't eat flares, be they dirty or extra virgin cold-pressed olive oil. Right now the only (known to us) way to have that seeker lose track with a flare is to have an area flare end up exactly between missile and target in very, veeeeery narrow circumstances.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

that part made my day.

Anyway, guess you're right.

let's wait and see what would ED prepare for us.

Considering the post on this forum from an actual F/A-18C driver who said performance drops off fairly rapidly as you load up the stores, I'd hedge that the M2000 would probably be better off in WVR within DCS where people aren't fighting with lightly loaded aircraft.

 

BVR will be the Hornet once it gets all its toys.

The Hornet nose authority is legendary too, and contrary to F-16, it can go even further than Mirage 2000 in AoA (> 30°).

So the low speed dogfight isn't really something to do for a long time in Mirage Vs Hornet.

At the merge, if the Mirage hasn't put a shot after the first 180° turn, he should better bug out !

The thing is the Hornet we will get (eventually) is a last generation Hornet (Fox 3, IIR Fox 2, Link 16, JHMCS).

To be fair, we would need a Mirage 2000-5 to hold up against that kind of set up (with a better Mica simulation, right now it's the same brick as Super 530D used to be)

ECM: it depends on how things are simulated in DCS. Right know I don't see what more than the Mirage the Hornet will bring ?

If you want to play fair, you can load the Hornet with AIM-7M and AIM-9M.

There the Mirage might have an edge in high altitude/ high speed BVR fight thanks to delta wing and engine. The Mirage can easily bring the fight to FL400+.

About Mirage 2000C load: once the drop tank has been released, the AA load isn't much of a burden, it's only 4 missiles.

If you want to be sure to have the edge with the Hornet, bring AIM-120C + AIM-9X.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bYolM_6SJk

In this video (see from 1:00 forward, where it's not a rafale) an M2000C kills an F-18. Doesn't mean anything of course but, anyway, it's the only hud tape available for a dogfight between the 2 planes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bYolM_6SJk

In this video (see from 1:00 forward, where it's not a rafale) an M2000C kills an F-18. Doesn't mean anything of course but, anyway, it's the only hud tape available for a dogfight between the 2 planes.

Sure, anything can happen in dogfight, and the Mirage is not a sitting duck, neither is the Hornet. It will be interesting for sure.:smilewink:

Our Air Force operates both the F-16 (Block 30, 50, 52+ , 52 +Adv) and the M2000 (E and -5). Had the opportunity to talk with several pilots of both planes about their combat performance. The conclusion (that i think can be transferred also in the M2000 vs F-18 discussion) was that 1) You have to compare similar variants of both types. And

2) Every plane has an advantage in specific speed / altitude regimes. The goal is to bring the fight were your airplane operates more efficiently.

Indeed :thumbup:

Greek pilots must be quite proficient in DACT ! :smilewink:

If you have the occasion, ask them how they do Vs US Navy Hornet.

There is an Aircraft Carrier port in Chania, so I assume they train with US Navy when they come in Mediterranean sea.

The Hornet nose authority is legendary too, and contrary to F-16, it can go even further than Mirage 2000 in AoA (> 30°).

So the low speed dogfight isn't really something to do for a long time in Mirage Vs Hornet.

At the merge, if the Mirage hasn't put a shot after the first 180° turn, he should better bug out !

[snip]

That's true, providing the Hornet is the one dictating the terms of the dogfight.

Everyone knows the F-18 is a beast at low speed and high AOA, so why would you fight on its terms?

The F-18 does have a lot of advantages going for it, I just think it's not going to be a walk in the park as people seem to think it'll be.

Everyone knows the F-18 is a beast at low speed and high AOA, so why would you fight on its terms?

Maybe because you want to rmin that AIM-9X.

Maybe because you want to rmin that AIM-9X.

Yeap, ok, that's a very good point.

Horrible danger zone isn't it? Glad we won't have to deal with it at launch :)

Important to Remember that we have an 80's version of the Mirage 2000C, and that we are getting a mid 2000's update of a the F-18 with JHCMS, 9X & AIM-120. Thats not to say the Mirage 2000C in DCS will be obliterated every time, but its at an extreme disadvantage due to the time difference of the modeled aircraft.

A dash 5 with MICAs would make things more interesting, for sure.

If we put the Hornet and Mirage 2000 with contemporary equipment, Mike+Sparrow vs. Magic/Super 530D, I'd put my money on the Mirage both in BVR and WVR. Swap the Sparrow for the AMRAAM and the Hornet obviously takes the cake in BVR, but without the AIM-9X the Mirage might be too much for the Hornet up close and personal.