Will the Skies over Normandy be populated?!

I think AI Bombers are absolutely vital. I really really hope they get released the same time like the Normandy map.

They are the only way to provide proper mission based gameplay on a public server. Even in the so called reference in online missions Cliffs of Dover, most of the time it's pure airquake on the public ATAG server. Every time i log in, flying a fighter, and go to teamspeak, the first question i ask is if anyone needs cover. Almost always the answer is no (because all 15-20 people who are on teamspeak fly fighters). The question you hear most of the time is "where is the fight", and when no one gives an answer, the next enemy airfield gets checked, and the so called "vulching" begins.

With AI bombers in DCS, gameplay like this could belong to the past. Proper notifications for both sides, where the bomber formations are, the allies could cover them, the Germans attack those formations. This would provide gameplay, like it really happened in the past.

At this time (late 44) over 90% of the aerial battles on the western front happened while attacking/covering the huge bomber formations. I would be OK with it, when this is the only gameplay in DCS for the next 3 or 4 years, because it's in my opinion way more interesting then just looking around for fighter targets.

This way people would also be forced to climb to altitudes, where the planes belong, and not lawnmowing on the ground or the so called mid altitude like it is right now. This would also solve the "problem" some people seeing with the P47. Up there with it's turbocharger, the P47 would be the king, when flown properly. In addition it would solve the problem a lot of people seeing in spotting, because those huge bomber formations with their contrails would be seen from very very far away.

In my opinion after releasing the next allied plane (don't mind if 47 or Spit) AI bombers are the most important thing to introduce in this WW2 scenario

yeah to have AI bomber formation would help the on-line draw, at least for me it would

JG 7 The World's First Jet Fighter Unit 1944/1945 by Bohme. Apparently the new gunsight was tested with the Me 262 by III./JG 7 in late February and early March 1945 after which Major Rudolf Sinner, the Gruppenkommandeur, decided against equipping the aircraft of the unit with the device. Evidently the high speed of the jet fighter allowed very little time to adjust the range controls for the gunsight to compute the necessary deflection. The book mentions that very likely the only victories claimed by a Me 262 equipped with the EZ 42 occurred when Unteroffizier Heiner Geisthövel of 2./JG 7 claimed two P-51 fighters on 8 April 1945.

 

In the book series Me262 by Smith/Creek, it is mentioned that the EZ42 was locked so it functioned as a regular gunsight.

Which book in the series was that quote in MiloMorai? I've got books 2 and 3(about finished with 3 now) ... I'm going to have to search to find books 1&4. It really has me interested in flying Me 262 when it comes out but I wonder if the players online will have similar accident rates.

Much of this falls on the shoulders of mission builders, utilizing things like the resource management for airfields and such can make a difference... for example, if the Me 262 proves to be dominant, simple limit their numbers, so if 10 are available, then after 10 are used up, people have to switch to other aircraft. This goes for weapons, etc... (I do understand improvements for Resource Management of WWII stuff is needed as well)

The way most of the servers are dealing with slots now seems to be working with the only exception being right after new planes are released. 4 Dora/4 K-4/4 Me 262 vs 4 Mustang/4 Spit/4 P47s will probably be fine in most missions. Spotting is pretty difficult in DCS so I can't see a plane like the Me262 dominating in this environment unless its attacking large targets like the B17. The Spit XIV could become a problem with alot of slots and it will be interesting to see how servers handle the large number of planes already announced including the P40/Bearcat/Etc.

Which book in the series was that quote in MiloMorai? I've got books 2 and 3(about finished with 3 now) ... I'm going to have to search to find books 1&4. It really has me interested in flying Me 262 when it comes out but I wonder if the players online will have similar accident rates.

About 1/2 way thru Vol 3, page 562

The way most of the servers are dealing with slots now seems to be working with the only exception being right after new planes are released. 4 Dora/4 K-4/4 Me 262 vs 4 Mustang/4 Spit/4 P47s will probably be fine in most missions. Spotting is pretty difficult in DCS so I can't see a plane like the Me262 dominating in this environment unless its attacking large targets like the B17. The Spit XIV could become a problem with alot of slots and it will be interesting to see how servers handle the large number of planes already announced including the P40/Bearcat/Etc.

I really hope we will see more then 12 planes aside, that would not be satisfactory at all. It definitely won't be fine in this setup, the Me262 would of course dominate pretty much everything. The only way for allied planes to harm the 262 is while it's landing or starting..or the pilot does really stupid things. If there are the same numbers of 262 like the other planes, they will just do sealclubbing until they run out of fuel or ammunition. For a 262 spotting is nothing else then for the other planes.

I really really hope the mission makers don't include the Bearcat into WW2, it has nothing left there. They can throw it into the Korea war scenario as a replacement for the Corsair. I wonder anyway why the Bearcat is being made, which wasn't used in any war beside a few groundattacks in Indochina War, instead of proper WW2 planes like the Lightning or the Corsair.

Anyway. I think a lot of planes to come don't fit into this '44 scenario, it won't be a good idea to include them all into one multiplayer scenario. I see planes like the P40 or the Wildcat just as "opener" for new scenarios to come, just as the P51 was for the last 3 years.

The only way for allied planes to harm the 262 is while it's landing or starting..or the pilot does really stupid things. If there are the same numbers of 262 like the other planes, they will just do sealclubbing until they run out of fuel or ammunition. For a 262 spotting is nothing else then for the other planes.

You mean if the 262 pilots stick to high speed B&Z tactics, unlike what typically happens when people fight online. Factor in the management of multiple troublesome jet engines and the fact that spotting and tracking targets is always more difficult at higher speeds. If true to life, I think the 262 will be deadly when used by a veteran DCS pilot... Others will be fiery Mustang bait with a smoke trail.

You mean if the 262 pilots stick to high speed B&Z tactics, unlike what typically happens when people fight online.

Yes

If true to life, I think the 262 will be deadly when used by a veteran DCS pilot... Others will be fiery Mustang bait with a smoke trail.

Veteran? I don't know where "veteran" starts for you. I think it's enough to handle the basics in aerial combat + read a proper book about tactics. That's at least how i did it. Started flight simming a year ago, and i think i fly pretty much every plane how it was supposed to be flown. But i would never ever call myself veteran :)

But i am sure, without boasting, that in the 262 i won't get shot down beside 10 minutes after takeoff and 5 minutes before landing, i bet on it. Maybe once a month :)

Yes

 

 

 

 

Veteran? I don't know where "veteran" starts for you. I think it's enough to handle the basics in aerial combat + read a proper book about tactics. That's at least how i did it. Started flight simming a year ago, and i think i fly pretty much every plane how it was supposed to be flown. But i would never ever call myself veteran :)

But i am sure, without boasting, that in the 262 i won't get shot down beside 10 minutes after takeoff and 5 minutes before landing, i bet on it. Maybe once a month :)

Celistiale, that's a deal!

Me in the F86, against your Me262 ;-)

I'll take that bet ;)

 

I think when he says DCS veteran, he means someone that has flown this sim a lot, and the WWII modules a lot, people just coming into DCS have to get used to the idiosyncrasies of DCS, like any other sim/game.

Ok i make an inquiry at Bet365 ;)

No kidding, i have way more fear off the takeoff or landing, then from enemy fighters in this bird. Hope the engine gets modeled properly, so you can't jerk your throttle around like you want. When i started simming in War Thunder (i know. Everybody has to start somewhere) you have been literally invincible with this plane against P51 or P47. And as arcade-like this game is, there are definitely not worse pilots (or lets rather call it players) when it comes to aerial combat, then in DCS

Celistiale, that's a deal!

 

Me in the F86, against your Me262 ;-)

Haha very funny :sorcerer:

Yes. Like Sith said, I simply meant someone who has put some time into learning the strengths of the aircraft, practicing them and not deviating. I was not trying to insult you in any way, just pointing out that such things were said about the D9 and K4...yet on a daily basis they get shot down in droves. It takes a good amount of discipline for a person to resist a turn fight online, most want to latch on to their quarry like a dog chasing a car. This will kill many 262 pilots.

It remains to be seen what the typical survival rate is for the 262 in DCS. I also fly them all and look forward to this legendary bird when it arrives.

Lately at the ACG server, I have restarted flying the p51d.

It gives me a real challenge to fly against human and AI Fw190D9s and Me109K4s. Have scored a few kills already, but, it makes me really think how much more advanced the German fighters were.

A lot simpler to fly, no need to constantly operate the radiators, switch fuel tanks, etc...

But OTOH there are aspects of the flight feel in a p51d, that can put it in advantage against a K4 and even more so against a 190D9 when their pilots do mistakes :-)

These sessions also helped me developing better scanning techniques, and one of these day's I will try my luck again at one of the DOW servers ;-)

Yes. Like Sith said, I simply meant someone who has put some time into learning the strengths of the aircraft, practicing them and not deviating. I was not trying to insult you in any way, just pointing out that such things were said about the D9 and K4...yet on a daily basis they get shot down in droves. It takes a good amount of discipline for a person to resist a turn fight online, most want to latch on to their quarry like a dog chasing a car. This will kill many 262 pilots.

 

It remains to be seen what the typical survival rate is for the 262 in DCS. I also fly them all and look forward to this legendary bird when it arrives.

No worries mate, didn't take it as an insult at all :). Yes of course, as soon as you start turning with the Schwalbe, you are pretty much dead. Acceleration won't even save you against a Buffalo :dontgetit: Also can't wait for this bird :)

Lately at the ACG server, I have restarted flying the p51d.

 

It gives me a real challenge to fly against human and AI Fw190D9s and Me109K4s. Have scored a few kills already, but, it makes me really think how much more advanced the German fighters were.

 

A lot simpler to fly, no need to constantly operate the radiators, switch fuel tanks, etc...

 

But OTOH there are aspects of the flight feel in a p51d, that can put it in advantage against a K4 and even more so against a 190D9 when their pilots do mistakes :-)

 

These sessions also helped me developing better scanning techniques, and one of these day's I will try my luck again at one of the DOW servers ;-)

I think the Mustang is in no way worse then the German planes. Everyone has it's unique strengths, like you already said, it just feels awesome to fly the Mustang. I fly the Mustang most of the time, also because it's just "something else" then in the other flight sims, also like those 0,5 cal :) I have never felt any unbalance in terms of performance (like in BoS or Clod when you fly allies)

Think the ACG is perfect, when there are not to many people online. Due to the very close airfields, you find enemies very quickly. DoW is rather for 25+ players i think, but then it's also good, with the ground attack stuff (sometime i have to figure out how to equip the plane with rockets or bombs :) )

No doubt one of the funniest aspects of the 262 should be learning how not to get yourself killed flying her :)

awesome :thumbup: hopefully that separates the wheat from the chaff a little bit :)

Lately at the ACG server, I have restarted flying the p51d.

 

It gives me a real challenge to fly against human and AI Fw190D9s and Me109K4s. Have scored a few kills already, but, it makes me really think how much more advanced the German fighters were.

 

But they weren't! I already said it and I don't want to repeat myself. I will leave the explanation in a spoiler. If you want to speak to me more about this please PM me.

But they weren't! I already said it and I don't want to repeat myself. I will leave the explanation in a spoiler. If you want to speak to me more about this please PM me.

Bf109K4 and even Ta152 would meet planes like P-47M or P-51H if it wasn't for the fact that the war for German airspace was already won by the allied fighters, like P-51B,D and P-47C,D, Tempest, Spitfire MkIX etc. And those planes fought agaist Bf109G6 and G14 mostly.

 

The Luftwaffe was already seriously crippled before the Bf109K4 was available in any big numbers.

 

The Fw190D9 was an awesome machine but most of them didn't have neither range computing gunsight nor MW50. They mostly ran at B4 fuel only and (correct me if I am wrong) more 190s flew with C3 fuel than with MW50 configuration, and that still is not the number that could justify to say "Germans had better planes". Meanwhile whole 8th airforce was running at 75hg and 150octane fuel.

 

 

I am sorry but those are facts.:book:

 

P-51D with 150grade fuel had speed (at SL) of 388mph (624kph) while the 109K4 with C3+MW50 fuel could go around 610kph. And P-51D could have been boosted even more, and P-51s on the Pacific flew with higher power settings.

 

But sadly in game t we have in game with B4+MW50 can fly 608kph and P-51D can fly 588kph=365mph

I guess what he meant was systems management and pilot workload. In the German planes, you don´t care about radiators, tank management etc and getting the thing running is easy as pie. In the Mustang on the other hand...

You mean if the 262 pilots stick to high speed B&Z tactics, unlike what typically happens when people fight online. Factor in the management of multiple troublesome jet engines and the fact that spotting and tracking targets is always more difficult at higher speeds. If true to life, I think the 262 will be deadly when used by a veteran DCS pilot... Others will be fiery Mustang bait with a smoke trail.

I agree and the attack tactics for the Me262 will be different from the Dora/K4. It will still require altitude and speed to attack but the approaches will be different. Fly into the attack and fly straight out of it in a steady climb but you will have to acquire the target after each attack which isn't easy at these speeds with the spotting in DCS. Me262 pilots that engage in turning fights with Mustangs/Spitfires will face the same fate as those in WWII that were caught without altitude or speed. Mustangs/Spitfires will be capable of catching the Me262 in a dive also and there are plenty of good pilots in Mustangs since it has been released for so long. This aircraft will require as much discipline as the Dora to be successful on the main servers so I think most of us will be quite humbled until we gain experience.

I also think average online pilot will do quite worse in a 262 than they would in a Dora or Kurfüst :)

It would be a tight discipline aircraft, one you would either dominate or get massacred in.

Yes, I think the 262 is going to be a lot more to handle than people might expect from past games/sims that modeled it... but that is just a guess.

I don't know. I think I will be able to make it explode just fine. :P

back on topic ;)

I dont play regularly because I dont have enough spare time, so simple :)

But when I fly I dont care about missing proper map, I dont care about missing proper ground units, I dont care about missing bombers etc.

I am player - virtual pilot. I read 200 pages manual and I fly my bird. I am following the mission briefing, trying to get my job done and bringing my baby home in one piece. Thats it! I dont care if the forest 12kft below me is pine or oak, if the river is called Nile or Volga. Ground below me is only good for not to fly above sea all the time ;)

I am just fighting for the victory no matter where. What else needed?

so simple :)

The way most of the servers are dealing with slots now seems to be working with the only exception being right after new planes are released. 4 Dora/4 K-4/4 Me 262 vs 4 Mustang/4 Spit/4 P47s will probably be fine in most missions. Spotting is pretty difficult in DCS so I can't see a plane like the Me262 dominating in this environment unless its attacking large targets like the B17. The Spit XIV could become a problem with alot of slots and it will be interesting to see how servers handle the large number of planes already announced including the P40/Bearcat/Etc.

the developers will have to change the way, how slots are working i think...at least this would help mission builders tremendously.same with skins.the slot system and skin system will hopefully change in future.otherwise its going to be a real pain for mission builders very soon...the more modules we get, the harder it will be to do proper missions with the current system.

I think the Mustang is in no way worse then the German planes.

The Mustang is a sweet flying aircraft and every bit the equal of the German fighters. No wonder it got the name "Cadillac of the Sky".

The NACA research and testing in Stability and Control engineering is well reflected in the design. The P-51 in DCS is a good balance of a stable gun platform and maneuverability.

The Mustang is a sweet flying aircraft and every bit the equal of the German fighters.

In my experience, if you put equal pilots in the P-51 and one of the German fighters, the pilot in the 109 or 190 should win every time.

I would expect the same result in a 2vs2 or larger fight, but with the 190's edge growing even more substantially.