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The B-17


SlipBall

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From the site cminer linked to:

 

bombed_tail1.jpg

 

bombed_tail2.jpg

 

bombed_tail3.jpg

 

bombed_tail4.jpg

 

The plane did go down after this happened, but not before they delivered their payload.

 

Some amazing pics on that site, though... To think the pilots brought the birds home after having half the tail including the rudder blown off, or without rear stabilizers...

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@T}{OR

The combat box is a interesting subject I've never flown in one, just posted the pic for viewer understanding sake in the thread. There were many different configuration's I've learned from just reading up a little on it. The axis response in their changed tactics for these boxes', is also very interesting...boy, it just makes me what this aircraft even more in the new game.


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@T}{OR

The combat box is a interesting subject I've never flown in one, just posted the pic for viewer understanding sake in the thread. There were many different configuration's I've learned from just reading up a little on it. The axis response in their changed tactics for these boxes', is also very interesting...boy, it just makes me what this aircraft even more in the new game.

 

I understand, that is why I posted my reply - including the dissected tactics and various other formations used. To the untrained eye, it is difficult to spot certain things. And I've been studying the subject for some years now.

 

DBS can offer you that kind of experience. ;)

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I understand, that is why I posted my reply - including the dissected tactics and various other formations used. To the untrained eye, it is difficult to spot certain things. And I've been studying the subject for some years now.

 

DBS can offer you that kind of experience. ;)

 

You may be the best man to advise llya then, on the hopefully ability to have this in game. In Clod the bombers when attacked will break and scatter, but then again they are not B-17's and not ordered to stay in a box.

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Same here, ready to pay 150$ for the B-17

 

It is my all time favorite aircraft, along with the Huey and the PC-6

 

But I would rather prefer the B-17F ( Memphis Belle era ... )

 

Anyway, this idea is really interesting, I tried to spread it on other forums but people are so pessimistic ;-(

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"Luftwaffe fighter pilots likened attacking a B-17 combat box formation to encountering a fliegendes Stachelschwein, "flying porcupine". However, the use of this rigid formation meant that individual aircraft could not engage in evasive maneuvers: they had to fly constantly in a straight line, which made them vulnerable to the German ground units. Moreover, German fighter aircraft later used the tactic of high-speed strafing passes rather than engaging with individual aircraft to inflict damage with minimum risk".

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I am curious, what kind of missions did the B-17 fly over Normandy? Did it take off from bases in France?

I always imagined it mostly in daylight raids on German cities.

 

 

I just did a quick google, only read the first hit

 

" Any breakout from the lodgement area would require the insightful and creative use of air power, including bomber aircraft such as the American B-17 and B-24 and the British Halifax and Lancaster operating in a troop-support role. Altogether there were six major raids by heavy bombers in support of breakout operations in Normandy. The first of these involved 457 Halifax and Lancaster bombers from RAF Bomber Command on July 7, in support of Montgomery's assault on Caen. The second was an even larger raid by 1,676 heavybombers and 343 light and mediumbombers onJuly 18. On the 25th, American bombers of the Eighth and Ninth Air Forces struck at Saint-Lo, preparatory to the First Army's breakout. A fourth attack on the 30th supported the Second British Army south of Caumont. Then an Anglo-American raid on August 7-8 supported the attack of the First Canadian Army toward Falaise from Caen, and the sixth raid, again supporting the attack on Falaise, followed on August 14.

Overall, the Allied high command considered these raids successful, and German soldiers caught in them testified to their devastating (if short-lived) impact upon morale. Field Marshal Hans von Kluge, Rommel's successor, complained that bomb-carpets buried equipment, bogged down armored units, and shattered the morale of troops. Unfortunately, the terrain disruption worked both ways: it hindered the attacker as much as the defender, and, in fact, bought the Germans time to regain some composure and dig in for the follow-on attack. If such air attacks were to be useful, they had to be followed immediately by a follow-on ground assault. When this occurred, Allied ground troops found German defenders dazed and prone to surrender.


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The B-17, mainly from the 8th Air Force bomber group, were all based in southern England ...

 

Memphis Belle's base was Bassingourn, and all bomber groups took off from England... Here in France, we didn't have any heavy bomber on our homeland, sadly ...

 

The B-17 destroyed a part of my own city ( train station ), as well as most of coastal cities ( Royan etc )

 

My grand parents can remember that and in some villages nearby, we can still find some B-17 parts, among other WWII plane parts, taken from wrecks ...

 

There wasn't only Normandy that saw the white star flying over ;-)

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  • 4 weeks later...

So now, what are the news related to the B-17 ?

 

I don't know if the choice is made already or not, but why not going for the -F version ? So under covered in simulation ... A2A Accusim is a -G model, and the old great sim B-17II : The Mighty 8th is also a -G...

 

-F is the Memphis Belle, and did a great job also over Europe and the Pacific ! I particularly love it's nose windscreen shape and the absence of chin turret

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

CPL(A)IR ME/SEP/MEP/SET - CPL(H)

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Sadly, Sally B is nothing but a mix of several versions ...

 

If my memories are correct, it is genuinly a -G model, that was quick convert to an -F for the movie Memphis Belle ( I love this movie as well as its soundtrack ! ).

 

Now can't find exact version ... anyway, -F and -G were pretty close ... except the differencies everyone knows, I don't know what was changed deeply in the systems ... same engines, same wide chord " paddle blades " Hamitlon Standard propellers... the -F was actually the fastest of all the B-17s, as the absence of chin turret reduced the drag a fait ammount ...

 

Would love to hear what they plan ;-)

 

Cheers,

Valentin

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Check out this site. They have sections for each area of the plane and details where available.

 

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm

 

Yeesh, that gallery is terrifying. Deep respect.

 

On the topic of the B-17, one question I have that I haven't really seen asked or answered is if the B-17 was made flyable would we only be able to assume the pilot/co-pilot position or would we be able to move freely about the cabin and assume control of any position.

 

The latter would be a dream come true for myself having played B17 II: Mighty Eighth since day One, but I know it would be a MASSIVE undertaking and would also depend on engine limitations.

That would be something I would take off work for the release though :joystick:

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HonorNecris, I can't help commenting. In my opintion, B17 II nailed the experience, with the only heartbreak being that multiplyer was never implemented. 10 friends acting in concert to complete a mission. Or, one man planning from both sides and sweating the outcome. Plenty of jobs for everyone. At the risk of wrath from Vpilots, there was more to the air war than piloting.

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I just started to read Masters of the Air by Donald Miller. I feel the first chapter is a bit dry, but I'll see how it goes as the book progresses.

 

I'm slowly starting to realize the potential of a whole DCS-level B-17. I think the addition of "multi-crewability" is essential. It wasn't "that" important for the Huey, but for a B-17, I think the lack of this feature would be a terrible missed opportunity. There would need to be models for all gunners, the navigator, the pilot, co-pilot, etc... It's a daunting task. But I think that if RRG studios can do the B-17 successfully, there is clearly no limit to what these guys can do. :)

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Thoughts..

 

Srry for double post, but I was thinking about the B-17 and how I got into flight sims. Besides messing around with all the Jane's combat simulators when I was about 10 (hand-me-downs from my uncle who is a pilot), the first air combat simulator I personally bought was B17 II.

 

I'll admit I didn't initially buy it with glorious plans to pilot the Fortress. I really just wanted to test my mettle against the infamous Luftwaffe! It was only after I bought the game for that reason before I realized how much fun piloting the aircraft really was (you could pilot the B17 as well as any of the 'little friends', or even the German aircraft attacking the B17 - which was actually a blast).

 

I know my experience is merely anecdotal, but I think having multiple positions available inside the B17 in RRG/DCS level of detail would be an EXCELLENT -if not the best- way to catch the eye of the crowd who have yet to discover hardcore flight sims and pull them into our world. :beer:

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I understand, that is why I posted my reply - including the dissected tactics and various other formations used. To the untrained eye, it is difficult to spot certain things. And I've been studying the subject for some years now.

 

DBS can offer you that kind of experience. ;)

I'll chime in here, as a former CO of a il2 B17 squad when attacked we would close formation as close as we could. The tighter we were in our box formation the harder it was to get through our gunners. The head on 12 o'clock high was still deadly though.

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I'll chime in here, as a former CO of a il2 B17 squad when attacked we would close formation as close as we could. The tighter we were in our box formation the harder it was to get through our gunners. The head on 12 o'clock high was still deadly though.
This was what made the B-17 such an iconic aircraft; among the heavy bombers of its era, it was the easiest to fly accurately and in a 'tight' formation for mutual protection. Even so, there was no hydraulic (or electrical) boost for the controls, which meant that for many basic maneuvers you had to have a second set of arms and legs working the yokes & rudder pedals, there were literally dozens of gauges that needed to be closely monitored and the workload for the two pilots was such that somebody else had to keep track of the course, another guy had to juggle the radio communications and intercom, and five more men had to be dedicated almost solely to manning the guns aft of the cockpit.

 

Modeling this aircraft's systems at the same level as the existing DCS P-51D should need a network of at least 2 or 3 people just to get it off the ground, fly around, and safely back down. Chances are that you would need 6 or 7 to operate at minimum combat efficiency, or the AI interface will need to be brilliant.

 

I'd look for a couple of extra levels of 'play' for those who can only fly the Fortress offline or solo, with role-specific training programs for pilots, navigators/radio officers and flight engineers at a minimum (I do not envy the person assigned to creating that aircraft's manuals...)

 

That is going to be an enormous project.

 

cheers

 

horseback

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I think llya is really gun ho to get this aircraft in the game. If this game is a huge success, then I think we will see her fairly quickly. Couple of years or less after 9/14

 

You're referring to a flyable one correct? It was my understanding that a non-flyable/AI controlled version was already planned to be in DCS WWII's initial release.

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