Will the Skies over Normandy be populated?!

so then .... bring it on davidred, myself and some other Kurfürst riders are allways hungry for some shootingtraining :pilotfly:

DCS 2 is my last hope for WW2 combat simulation. Being an IL-2 1946 long time player, the engine and game is on its last legs and is slowly fading away into obscurity.

I know a lot of IL-2 casual players would be turned off by the realism that is inherent in the current Fw-190, P-51 and Bf109. What are peoples perceptions of a plane set of FC3 quality aircraft that would allow the WW2 theater to expand more quickly?

I am not OK with SFM. We need high fidelity flight models and damage models. I don't see the point in flying a generic FM that just looks like a P47 but flies like "a generic radial plane 2"

Full realism please :-/

I don't want a War Thunder ....

DCS 2 is my last hope for WW2 combat simulation. Being an IL-2 1946 long time player, the engine and game is on its last legs and is slowly fading away into obscurity.

 

I know a lot of IL-2 casual players would be turned off by the realism that is inherent in the current Fw-190, P-51 and Bf109. What are peoples perceptions of a plane set of FC3 quality aircraft that would allow the WW2 theater to expand more quickly?

thx, but NO!there are already other flight games for that.DCS is the only thing which goes into such details, and lowering the fidelity would be a LOSS.

I too am not ok with SFM. The flight model and damage model must be advanced.

I agree with all your sentiments, I love the detail and realism of the current WW2 birds. Each aircraft really is a game within itself taking many hours to learn the basics.

I just see many more casual flyers shying away, which would hurt the online player count. The current SU-27 has an advanced flight model and 6DOF just not the fully clickable cockpit. This is a half way point which could bring other players in, however I prefer the full realism of a fully clickable cockpit.

i hope of ED will stay at actual level of simulation for WW II plane, NO FC3 level, please!

p.s. i have FC3 and like it but DCS P-51D (and others WW II planes) is much better :)

I know a lot of IL-2 casual players would be turned off by the realism

Maybe you can help spread the word that sticking to it and learning is much more satisfying?

Maybe you can help spread the word that sticking to it and learning is much more satisfying?

I have a friend who I used to play with in IL-2 1946. I even bought him the DCS Fw-190 D9 module but he can't get into it.

I have 50 real flight hours in a light aircraft so I know a little bit about the basics, but for him, I think he is just overwhelmed by it all.

I agree though, the greater the realism, the greater the reward and immersion.

Each aircraft really is a game within itself taking many hours to learn the basics.

That is right. It takes training and experience in any aircraft to fly it effectively. The more complex and high performance the aircraft, the more training and experience required.

It is part of the fun of DCS and makes it not one game but many games under one umbrella.

I can't wait for the P-47 for that reason. That turbocharger system has never been realistically modeled in any game. In fact, it is completely stupid in most games....I mean really stupid and not even close to how it worked or had to be operated.

Just learning and operating that system is going to be a blast. Power changes are going to be different from the supercharged engines to things like avoid compressor stalls and account for spool up time etc...

It is going to be fun. Once you have it mastered and are dogfighting online with it, I don't think many players will ever look at the P-47 the same as it is modeled in previous games.

I think he is just overwhelmed by it all.

PM me and let's get online and help him out.

PM me and let's get online and help him out.

I think THIS is the perfect approach.

Bravo, Crumpp. And if you guys have any favorite maps you have made that would benefit flight training I'd be willing to maybe host a training night on one of our servers to help some of these guys out.

I also give Panzerd credit for asking such a question within the wolves den. :thumbup: With all that training on these DCS aircraft comes a tremendous amount of pride. We need to convince these new guys that with a moderate amount of time investment you can operate these aircraft as if they were simplified versions. It's just a matter of practice and pays off ten-fold.

I think that is a good idea Merlin-27. Maybe DCS World War II will sponsor a Training Corp.

Just a list of volunteers who are willing to give their time to new players to help the "fledglings leave the nest".

In terms of overwhelming Il2 players, the difference is the systems startup. Just direct them to a server (or SP mission) with hot starts or air starts. If they don't get hooked by the cockpit immersion and flight dynamics, then I guess you know DCS is not their thing.

Once hooked, they'll be more enthusiastic for learning the startup, which always looks more complicated to new players than it really is.

Honestly, the original IL2 line struck that perfect balance of realism and complexity when it comes to popularity. It was easy enough for someone absolutely new to pick up and figure out pretty quickly, and complex enough to keep us hardcore types interested. RoF and BoS both took this same approach. They have full fidelity FM's (better than DCS honestly) but went with simple systems management. RoF, being WW1 and thus a niche within a niche, did far better than anyone could have reasonably thought it would. BoS is struggling but it has nothing to do with the planes or the way they fly, it was a few derps on game design in the final weeks of early access that did all the damage.

I still think IL2:BoS will end up being the main WW2 game for the next 5+ years. The physics and damage modeling are just so much better and yet the game is also easier to learn. But they will need to get their gameplay in order first, which they seem to now recognize is a problem and are addressing. DCS WW2 is something that interests me as well. It is a different front and does offer complex systems management. However, DCS WW2 currently has very little content.

And I suspect that is the real problem with WW2 servers here right now. There simply isn't anything there. People here love to poke fun at WT for being call of duty with plane skins, but you can't really call DCS any better since it's WW2 fights consist of nothing but pure team deathmatch between P-51D's and Fw-190D's + Bf-109K's... and a Shilka. I don't really care about maps, to me snow is snow, grass is grass and sand is sand. But I do care about the various units involved. Without period appropriate AI bombers, air defenses and ships, we cannot build an interesting scenario for MP or SP. And without that interesting scenario, I have no interest. And this is something that adding a dozen flyable planes isn't going to fix. ED absolutely has to step in and release a basic pack of tanks, trucks, ships and of course some AI bombers.

They have full fidelity FM's

I disagree.

They have full fidelity FM's (better than DCS honestly) but went with simple systems management.

I have heard weird things about BOS flight models.

Having 50 real world flight hours in Cessna's and Piper's, flying the DCS P-51 for the first I knew it was the real deal. I have never flown any simulator with such a nice flight model as the P-51 as the first aircraft I used in DCS World. It really is a credit to the people releasing these aircraft and for once I am happy to pay the money for each aircraft because I know they're a game within themselves due to their complexity.

BOS on the other hand with simple systems, I can't justify paying $19.99 per DLC aircraft and then having to unlock their options.

So for me, DCS World is the future and I hope when Normandy is released, it will all come together to an immersive WW2 flight simulator.

And so you should be :) I dont always dogfight, but when I do I shoot everyone just to be sure ;)

You'll be banned .. mwahahaha :thumbup:

Honestly, the original IL2 line struck that perfect balance of realism and complexity when it comes to popularity. It was easy enough for someone absolutely new to pick up and figure out pretty quickly, and complex enough to keep us hardcore types interested. RoF and BoS both took this same approach. They have full fidelity FM's (better than DCS honestly) but went with simple systems management. RoF, being WW1 and thus a niche within a niche, did far better than anyone could have reasonably thought it would. BoS is struggling but it has nothing to do with the planes or the way they fly, it was a few derps on game design in the final weeks of early access that did all the damage.

I've spent a lot of time in BoS flying since mid summer 2014 (I regret buying the preorder, it was not worthy but my Clan mates insisted that I should try and after lot of youtube videos I was attracted). The game itself as a very good core, good graphics and fantastic sounds along with climate and feeling of winter. I love the snow there, it looks so much better than in any other game.

But in regard to the flight models I would politely disagree, as its based on RoF engine designed for biplanes (and i flew RoF) the BoS feels like not much was changed. 109s became rocket climbers and ability to prop hang on them astound me. I know 109s were known for being very good climbing machines, I've spent enough hours in CloD to learn a lot of them, but in BoS they are hard to stall to degree that ... I never stalled in combat. No matter what I do I still can pull more. The FW 190 feels light to me, but moreover it is consistently criticized on forums for being an under-performing machine. I can believe into that.

From my perspective flight models do not feel well, maybe thats just me, but in DCS for the first time I really felt the weight of certain machines like P-51. I could easily find stability, could easily trim the things and what is more ... the real documents like flight manuals applied here. I will question a lot 109 K-4, but as even Yoyo knows the issues with climb or lack of stick forces I have a good faith in the future updates.

I still think IL2:BoS will end up being the main WW2 game for the next 5+ years. The physics and damage modeling are just so much better and yet the game is also easier to learn. But they will need to get their gameplay in order first, which they seem to now recognize is a problem and are addressing. DCS WW2 is something that interests me as well. It is a different front and does offer complex systems management. However, DCS WW2 currently has very little content.

I doubt that. Most of my friends, even those really waiting for BoS resigned from playing. The limit cap on the servers (48 people) when at launch you could run 90 or more ... and I mean my clan (Loose Deuce) was running Heavy Metal server up to the limits, having almost 150 people on the server with no ping issues. Sorry, but developers are hurting themselves. If they did it before the launch by adding the progress in campaign, to "research" to modules (so I have to grind single player to ... have bigger loadouts in He-111 ... ) and they did that with the cap on the multiplayer ... I see no reason for it to get any better. Its about mentality, which they seem to have completely wrong.

For me, so the DCS would be main WW2 sim to fly I need :

- Spitfires (sorry, just love that machine)

- proper map, can be Normandy, Dover, Berlin ... whatever you name, just bring it on.

- land units from the epoque, so I will strafe Ostwings, not Shilkas

- improved engine performance, to increase the FPS and server capabilities to hold more players

Rest is fun :pilotfly:

(better than DCS honestly)

I only have experience with RoF, but yes, they're clearly better if you like "balanced for gameplay" ;)

I too am not ok with SFM. The flight model and damage model must be advanced.

 

I agree with all your sentiments, I love the detail and realism of the current WW2 birds. Each aircraft really is a game within itself taking many hours to learn the basics.

 

I just see many more casual flyers shying away, which would hurt the online player count. The current SU-27 has an advanced flight model and 6DOF just not the fully clickable cockpit. This is a half way point which could bring other players in, however I prefer the full realism of a fully clickable cockpit.

These WWII birds are nowhere near as complex as the A10/BS and most people should be able to pick up the basics (startup/takeoff,landing) in a few days. Combat employment will take longer depending on their skill level and flight sim experience but anyone can improve. I think most get scared away from DCS because of hearsay or youtube videos of the A10/BS.