Realistic IR-A2A ASP pipper not working correctly

As in the title already stated, after the recent open beta update, the ASP always behaves in the unrealistic manner. The pipper always sticks onto the target in case of an IR lock. In the options there is a flag where this could be changed as desired but since the update, this does not work any more. It always works the unrealistic way, regardless of whether the flag is set or not.

Yeah, seems like a bug. Has it been reported? Until the issue is resolved, you can always put the sight in gyro mode to get rid of the "sticking to target" behaviour.

Report it here.

https://leatherneck-sim.mantishub.com/

As of the latest beta, this is still not working and piper is following target irrespective of the menu setting :(

I just turn off the pipper, use the net and dim it, usign the sound as a "tone" cue. Works much better that way.

Why is this behavior even an option? It was a mistake.

Mission settings override player setting.

If you're playing somewhere like GS or DDCS (unless Red finally fixed it) - then bring it up with the server owner. My pipper doesn't follow the IR seekers unless I'm playing on a server which enforces server settings for special options - in both SP and on Alpen's Cold War the ASP behaves as it should. I've been away from home for a few days so I'll double check it didn't break in the most recent update, but for now that would be my first suggestion - check in SP and different servers.

I am playing SP, I am sorry it is not tracking IR targets without radar lock, but it is tracking radar locked targets, which it probably also should not ? (I am not so sure about this, but in previous version of realistic ASP, the piper was not slaved to radar lock).

It tracks radar-locked targets, but only in the vertical plane - it's caged horizontally. This is accurate behaviour IIRC.

The movable pipper does not track radar or seeker target in any mode. None of that is realistic. The only thing pipper does in CC mode is move vertically according to computed angle and additionally it can drift in two dimensions in gyro mode which is only really an electromechanical spring.

It tracks radar-locked targets, but only in the vertical plane - it's caged horizontally. This is accurate behaviour IIRC.

It tracks only vertically when in CC, however if you put it in GYRO it will follow radar locked target. Even in CC mode it tracks vertically but it is tracking the position of the target. I haven't read in any manual that it should do it. I can only confirm what Frederf said, vertical movement of the piper is only for automatic solution for firing at ground targets.

That's probably a more accurate description of what I'm talking about - it will 'follow' a target only in the vertical plane and exhibits no lateral movement whatsoever. It only does this when locked and it's still not accurate enough to cue you onto the actual target if you're struggling to see it, you have to use the radar display itself for that. I don't use gyro often so I'll have to check that out.

E: It does indeed track the target directly in gyro mode, welp :noexpression:

The real ASP when configured for AA missile shooting the pipper doesn't move at all. If it does in DCS then it's wrong.

The gyro gunsight reticle mode that I need that is presently broken is the fixed 300m range maneuvering target mode used in dogfights. Following the MiG-21bis flight manual: rockets-guns to guns, bombing-shooting to shooting, auto-manual to manual, gyro-missile to gyro, and twist-handle range all the way back (making the break off light come on), then adjusting the span knob using the outer scale to set the wingspan. This should give you a free-ranging gyro sight with a fixed 300m range input and the reticle sized to show when the target's wingspan is at 300m.

What I get is a sight that wobbles left and right with no vertical movement. But at least the reticle changes size based on the wingspan knob. How many years was that aspect broken?

With auto mode on, the gyro is set up for the 600-2000m range scale for targets not maneuvering or pulling less than 2g. Clearly, the range and g requirements match that for engaging large bombers, because 600m is pretty much the outer edge of range for hitting maneuvering targets in high g dogfight, and 2g isn't dogfighting.

Gyro mode is not used for missiles, so the sight reticle uses the span knob to set mils to mix with the fixed reticle for intricate aiming techniques described in the manual.

The reticle only moves based on a mix of gyro and range input (radar or manual twist handle), it should never move otherwise, and certainly never follows the target like a hud box.

Some patches have fixed/broken the gun sight reticle behavior in different ways, but it has never worked 100% correctly and only with one of the very recent patches did it start approaching correct behavior. But after all this time, the gunsight still doesn't work right? And why in a sim like this would it have a checkbox option to make it follow the target like a hud box?

But other than the remaining oddities of the ever broken gunsight, I am very happy with the present state of the MiG-21 compared to the past few years. I enjoyed the original release/early patches a heck of a lot more until the last couple of patches. Accurate or not, the current flight model is the best it has had and I love being able to see through the glass instead of having sun glare, dirt, and the double layer of the HUD/windshield making it very difficult to see a small target under many lighting conditions.

The main problen and the foundations of all these problems, is that the base code for the non-graphic part, was made for the LOMAC 21bis MOD.

After some years of troublesome life cycle, this base code hasn´t been redone. So I think that every patch is a new layer of solved-unsolved problems.

I seriously doubt that before M3 release and make profit with a new module(s), the 21 will be updated seriously, rewriting the base code as a new foundation to mantein the module within the DCS ecosystem.

I seriously doubt that before M3 release and make profit with a new module(s), the 21 will be updated seriously, rewriting the base code as a new foundation to mantein the module within the DCS ecosystem.

Just that this is exactly what they have been doing...

http://leatherneck-sim.com/2020/05/20/crouching-update/

We have some fixes scheduled for this. I dont have any ETA yet, but we're looking into it guys ;)

On 7/7/2020 at 6:22 AM, streakeagle said:

Gyro mode is not used for missiles, so the sight reticle uses the span knob to set mils to mix with the fixed reticle for intricate aiming techniques described in the manual.

 

The reticle only moves based on a mix of gyro and range input (radar or manual twist handle), it should never move otherwise, and certainly never follows the target like a hud box.

 

Some patches have fixed/broken the gun sight reticle behavior in different ways, but it has never worked 100% correctly and only with one of the very recent patches did it start approaching correct behavior. But after all this time, the gunsight still doesn't work right? And why in a sim like this would it have a checkbox option to make it follow the target like a hud box?

Just doing some testing for a suspected bug and noticed a potential other bug related to this. It became apparent with radar off or standby and no input to the TDC range that the range indicator still operated as if the radar was on for a2g radar ranging. I'm guessing this is not correct behaviour? Or does the MiG21 do some radalt and depression angle to slant distance calculation? (though fairly sure the radalt was off as well in the testing I was doing).

There is a barometric slant range unit which can get approximate slant range to ground without radar or manual input. The barometric value is set in an avionics bay not accessible to the pilot for the suspected target area elevation and the barometric pressure. This is why use of RSBN letdown mode requires the AA-AG switch be in AA so as not to use the wrong altitude source.

23 hours ago, Frederf said:

There is a barometric slant range unit which can get approximate slant range to ground without radar or manual input. The barometric value is set in an avionics bay not accessible to the pilot for the suspected target area elevation and the barometric pressure. This is why use of RSBN letdown mode requires the AA-AG switch be in AA so as not to use the wrong altitude source.

 Cool, I would not have guessed the MiG21Bis had this capability.

Is the problem still present?

Yes, piper follows locked target regardless of setting set. 

Would be nice if this was fixed...

@Hiromachi

What is the status on this fix?

I played a small coop mission with my friends yesterday and the Realistic ASP reticle/Special Option is still an issue in multiplayer!

Unless we play on a server with good knowledge about MiG-21bis module, the Special Option is not working on public servers either.

Please, please, please fix this. Or make the special option default (or something).

Still an issue in MP...