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Not siding with anyone in particular - but there seems to be a general view that anyone who is a pilot for the military is somehow the epitome of aviation excellence.

Trust me, I have known some complete muppets wearing pilots wings. Some simple examples like taking off in your MB339 and smashing it out towards the bombing range..and then coming over the radio saying he had possible engine problems and not being able to gain airspeed at max throttle...yeah, leaving the gear down will do that.

Or like one interesting flight I was on, as we descended at 250kts through 200' at 2000 ft/min directly at the ocean during a night descent in a P-3, only saved by the co-pilot taking over and pulling up at 120'...3.6 secs before impact. (200' was our not-below).

Yes there are some supreme pilots in the military - but there are also some not-so-greats..

A few observations with the AOTK video:

1. Pete Bonanni eventually made flag rank in the VA ANG. You generally don't do that as an aviator if you don't know how to fight your aircraft.
   
2. The video and accompanying book was intended to be a primer on BFM, not a graduate level tactics course.
   
3. In any tactical scenario, you exploit your advantages and opponent's disadvantages while protecting your own vulnerabilities and trying not to "play the opponent's game."
   

With regards to #3, the F-16A was the fastest turning rate-fighter in the air (at the time of the video), so why not use it to your advantage with a level slice? Just because it isn't an exotic maneuver doesn't mean it isn't a good opening gambit. With the sustained rate of the F-16A, there's no need to play the vertical like you would need to in the F-4 or F-14.

Why don't you both just agree to disagree? These type of debates go one forever look at F-16. Net.

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Not siding with anyone in particular - but there seems to be a general view that anyone who is a pilot for the military is somehow the epitome of aviation excellence.

 

Trust me, I have known some complete muppets wearing pilots wings. Some simple examples like taking off in your MB339 and smashing it out towards the bombing range..and then coming over the radio saying he had possible engine problems and not being able to gain airspeed at max throttle...yeah, leaving the gear down will do that.

 

Or like one interesting flight I was on, as we descended at 250kts through 200' at 2000 ft/min directly at the ocean during a night descent in a P-3, only saved by the co-pilot taking over and pulling up at 120'...3.6 secs before impact. (200' was our not-below).

 

Yes there are some supreme pilots in the military - but there are also some not-so-greats..

120 feet above the deck at a 2000ft/min descent is .06 seconds before impact and I call bullshit.

Lets see, who's word should I take... A real fighter pilot, or some dude on the internet...

I think I'll go with the dude that flies them for real.

120 feet above the deck at a 2000ft/min descent is .06 seconds before impact and I call bullshit.

2000ft/min is 33ft per second, so actually 3.6 secs for 120ft.

120 feet above the deck at a 2000ft/min descent is .06 seconds before impact and I call bullshit.

If you’re going to call bullshit on somebody’s story then it’s in your best interest to confirm you can pilot a calculator successfully first... just sayin’

Stick to video games and let the Pros handle it, thanks... My Uncle (The F-14 Pilot) would beg to differ... Anyone underestimating a Tomcat is about to get one hell of a wake up call...

Lets see, who's word should I take... A real fighter pilot, or some dude on the internet...

 

I think I'll go with the dude that flies them for real.

120 feet above the deck at a 2000ft/min descent is .06 seconds before impact and I call bullshit.

Did your Uncle (The F-14 Pilot), taught you those maths ?

Stick to video games and let the Pros handle it, thanks. :thumbup:

GREAT VIDEO just saying

Stick to video games and let the Pros handle it, thanks... My Uncle (The F-14 Pilot) would beg to differ... Anyone underestimating a Tomcat is about to get one hell of a wake up call...

Well, if uncle wants to weigh in, he's welcome to do so, but because you 'know somebody' doesn't mean you personally know any better than anybody else.

As for a given pilot being an 'expert' on amything, that's misleading. A pilot can be an expert on general flight, he can be an expert on the operation of a given aircraft, but that is not the same as being an 'all knowing final word' on a topic as varied and complex as this. As with everything else, the world of 'pilots' encompasses a wide variety of competencies ranging from 'how did you get your wings?' to 'bird/man hybrid of death'.

I've also known very few people l, especially arguing on the internet, who didn't claim to be experts on the the topic being discussed. The competency of any given person here is automatically suspect because claims are made without verification or reference.

You're all 'just dude's on the internet' btw. No point in your chest thumping. The more of that sort of stuff a person does, the less credible they are. It's called 'self qualifying', trying to assert your rightness (typically in an inappropriate context).

Why don't you both just agree to disagree? These type of debates go one forever look at F-16. Net.

 

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Roger that, bugging out! :thumbup:

No need to mention that place twice ;)