DeMonteur Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I love flying all the helo's including the MI 8 , I have very little difficulty landing the KA 50, the Huey or the Gazelle but when it comes to the 8 I windup chasing the VSI and it gets into VRS so easy and drops like a rock, if I try to come in and hover then land, a rolling landing is easy,but there are times when thats not possible. I am using a warthog hotas, is there special curves or a secret incantation or maybe I need one stiff drink, whats the secret? Thanks I hate sucking at landing :crash: It like to get into VRS easier than other DCS model. In real world it is not so easy to get she to VRS. Another problem is combined too long acceleration of engines from near idling and too low weight. For descending in real one you need about 5-3° collective pitch where 3°collective is minimum safe pitch for power descend. In DCS Mi-8 on 3°collective pitch hardly descends so you need lower collective to the deck. This means that engines goes idling main rotor starts spinning and you go down in autorotation. Before landing you increase collective a bit in about 80km/h in 80m AGL but engines are drinking coffee instead of acceleration and main rotor RPM goes down so you just pray that they will start working before you hit the ground. Destroyed so many Hips in DCS because of this. And I never had problem with real one. 132nd vWing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 ??? If you get into VRS adding power will make things worse, so I'm not sure why you'd think that's an issue. Also, necropost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Meh. Just follow the VSI and you're good. And how do you know how much of a widowmaker this machine really is? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Just follow the VSI and you're good. No, better to be watching your airspeed. Keep your speed up so you retain effective transitional lift and you're safe from VRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FragBum Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 It like to get into VRS easier than other DCS model. In real world it is not so easy to get she to VRS. Another problem is combined too long acceleration of engines from near idling and too low weight. For descending in real one you need about 5-3° collective pitch where 3°collective is minimum safe pitch for power descend. In DCS Mi-8 on 3°collective pitch hardly descends so you need lower collective to the deck. This means that engines goes idling main rotor starts spinning and you go down in autorotation. Before landing you increase collective a bit in about 80km/h in 80m AGL but engines are drinking coffee instead of acceleration and main rotor RPM goes down so you just pray that they will start working before you hit the ground. Destroyed so many Hips in DCS because of this. And I never had problem with real one. I just went through this approach as described down to 80KIAS collective 3 to 5 deg AoA started at 3 deg and worked between 3 and 5 deg and perfect landing. Having said that did you adjust the engine controls and not bring them back to power for landing? You fly Mi8 or Mi 17?? Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment. Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above. Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 No, better to be watching your airspeed. I meant when you're executing a hover landing. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Yes, that's what I'm talking about too. Approaches should be made at a shallow, constant angle, not too dissimilar to a fixed wing aircraft. Your speed should gradually reduce towards the end of the approach so that your ground speed reaches 0 at the same time you enter ground effect, or there about. If you're getting into VRS your approach is probably too steep, or you're slowing down too early, or both. Also something that's rarely mentioned in VRS discussion is the importance of wind direction. You're far more likely to enter VRS landing downwind than upwind, so know where the wind is coming from and land into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonteur Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Easiest rule For correct approach your groundspeed should be equal to your height over HLZ. Flying on Mi-8MTV which is Mi-171Sh 132nd vWing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Yeah FS, all true, but I meant when you're stationary already. But never mind, what you're saying there is all true per se of course. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FragBum Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 For correct approach your groundspeed should be equal to your height over HLZ. Flying on Mi-8MTV which is Mi-171Sh Still great practical information thanks. :) Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment. Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above. Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonteur Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I just went through this approach as described down to 80KIAS collective 3 to 5 deg AoA started at 3 deg and worked between 3 and 5 deg and perfect landing. Having said that did you adjust the engine controls and not bring them back to power for landing? You fly Mi8 or Mi 17?? I Fly Mi-8MTV. Sorry for wrong description. Tested it in DCS and 80km/h is pretty safe. Anyway for landing in DCS you need to be much more gentle with collective than in RW acft. 132nd vWing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 it seems to me that the Mi-8 is less sensitive to vortex since the last DCS 2.5 Open Beta update (last Wednesday) ? Did anyone else find that out as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) Anyway for landing in DCS you need to be much more gentle with collective than in RW acft. This may well be and I'm not disparaging your RL experience/expertice in the slightest. However, having flown the DCS machine a lot by now, I'm not actually finding her hard to land at all - anymore ;) :D The thing is, you've got to know how to handle her. And experience does make a difference, even in this cozy bubble of ours where no-one gets hurt for real. Anyway, a big S! for your comments. They're the real thing and I do appreciate them - and you, as a RL Hip driver - a lot. So an S! again and sunny skies to you mate. Edited January 18, 2020 by msalama The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backdraft Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) Hi all I've been reading this for a while over and over again. And have probably over 200hrs. And I still cannot land where I want to say on the Numbers or 1000 ft markers. I can keep between 2/3 MS. But 3 things happen i either hit VRS or some how I get into a hover but way short or or long of my aim point. Or I I'm coming down and get the shakes and anticipate and ad power and I either Spin out or I pop up.please help. I have tried every setting know to man. Currently the way I can even fly is. Is Collective is 2DZ 100x 100y 11 curve. Pitch 0 100x 85y 25curve Roll 0 100x 85y 25 curve Rudder 2DZ 100y 100x 40 curve Stick is Warthog With 20cm extension. I think I need full movement in controls but just slower speed. But i dont think that's possible.i can. Barely get into a hover just on pick up too. I set the controls like chucks guide said. And as soon as I am adding collective nice and smooth to get up it becomes a circus. I've also tried rudder trimmer on, off. Default, Centering trim, Control helper. Everything. I am so frustrated I dont want to give up. But you think after a year it would work. I have watched every video I can find. And the to replicate.but something is missing . Edited February 10, 2020 by Backdraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Sounds like a bit too rough collective operation. But then, I know myself even Warthog throttle lever's throw isn't long enough to make it easy. In practical terms, however, if you're not flying with heavy loads or high density altitudes, you don't use all of the collective trange, but most likely only bottom half of it. I'd try to increase curvature then, should make it somewhat less sensitive where it really matters. Not sure if high curvature on pedals is good idea, though. True, it makes pedals less sensitive near center, but at the same time ultra sensitive at high deflections - and you do use these a lot while hovering, taking off and landing. I think I would experiment with lower curvature here. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Can you provide a track Backdraft? That'll make it easier to give advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backdraft Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Art, Thanks and Flamin ill try. What I am finding most problems is in the Landing. Im always over or undershooting my Spot. But when I am Lowering collective and nosing up till the shakes. I pull up the collective to Arrest to the descent everywhere ive read . But I pop up or spin. it never stays even like when descending. Also side note. I notice my altitude Autopilot never stays on when I get to a level flight. Green light comes on then it goes out. Or also I see when I level out and then trim I always seem to slow down even though im going forward and level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrohde Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I notice my altitude Autopilot never stays on when I get to a level flight. Green light comes on then it goes out. Isn't this tied to the engine RPM? PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromhunt Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 master mi8 To master the mi8 the best way is practice while playing a mission. This one is specific ,because you have to concentrate on one point.you will see that after a few minutes that you will be able to land from every direction. Pm me if you want to share the mission with me.:smilewink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backdraft Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) That's a Good Idea Crom. Only thing is. I see the landing part. but I don't know how to get to that point. You were flying good then able to get into hover and come down. How do you do that this is the part I don't understand. I will try this if I can find it thanks. Edited February 10, 2020 by Backdraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromhunt Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 "Backdraft" If i did well understand,you want to know how i do the hover and the landing? You would like me explain ?it's difficult with simple words.The best way is coming in my session and follow. But if you dont want to join?.... In first you need to own the persian gulf map for my mission. In second time check out parameters like indicated speed,vertical speed,altitude.I did let the internal view for to show that. take off from any base and follow the green smokes upto an oil rig. that 's it all. To make it easy dont fly too high,maintain your height between 100 and 150 meters. begin your aproach at low speed,something like 100 km/h.Slow your speed slowly while coming close. Don't worry if you stop before the oil rig. maintain your height just above the oil rig.you will see some vibrations.It's because your helo make his transition.Now push slighly forward the stick while maintaining your height. Once over the oil rig push slowly the collective downward,while maintain your sink rate low. it remains to wait the wheels touch ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Exulte Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Personally, I fly without curves as it feels closer to real aircraft I've flown, ie often if you move it enough you ''feel'' the device move it waa too far, so you just ''apply faint pressure''. Helicopters by nature in a hover are sensitive to overcontrol, and every movement requires an opposing movement quickly followed by a return to neutral. Being too mushy is apt ro interfere with precision as much as too sensitive. Imo the Hip is the easiest to fly because the movements are so heavy, but in rl you have inertial feedback and peripheral cues that you don't ingame. TrackIR or something is extremely helpful if you don't already have it. One thing you might try is settiing up a target zone ringed by static objects at varying distances. Use external view to ''cheat'' and position yourself over the lz then note the positions of your land marks. Your problem is most likely just misgauging your relative position. Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backdraft Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) Zuhkov Probaly true, but I think whats is making this last year so frustrating is that, I have yet to see thru numerous videos or been told a kinda guide of what to do when( I know the helos its not a step by step thing). I get the vibration, watching the VSI, looking out ahead and such. Like for example most I have scoured the forums and seen " Keep a steady descent at 2-3ms don't go over 5, down collective and eas back the nose, then come to a hover over your spot and set here down" almost everything I have read and video I have seen. this happens. But none explain the how.(As to what you are or need to be doing) I have done all that above but either vrs or spin left right before or after the shakes. It never goes into a Hover. and kind of same picking up into a hover. I followed chucks guides, watched videos, matched the controls and trimmed and as soon as I slowly pick up like everything says. I spin out or I get up and I am cockeyed. never flat and level. So once again something is missing there. And I know practice practice and more but after over 100hrs it should have clicked. Edited February 11, 2020 by Backdraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holton181 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) ... Did you see post #93? Isn't this tied to the engine RPM? What are your RPM:s? Surprisingly often people accidentally have their throttle (the one on the collective, not called throttle on the Mi-8) turned to idle speed, making the chopper very difficult to fly properly. And remove all curves! And centering springs! Neither belong to helicopters! Edited February 11, 2020 by Holton181 Helicopters and Viggen DCS 1.5.7 and OpenBeta Win7 Pro 64bit i7-3820 3.60GHz P9X79 Pro 32GB GTX 670 2GB VG278H + a Dell PFT Lynx TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) And remove all curves! And centering springs! Neither belong to helicopters! I CALL BS BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE SINGLE TRUTH TO THIS. I've said this a kazillion times already and I'll say it again just as many times as I have to. A common cheapo garden-variety joystick has such a short throw that you just CAN NOT duplicate or mimic any real-life controller characteristics with it unless you use curves, because without them, you'll just end up with a completely unrealistic and crappy setup that is nothing short of laughable in its twitchyness. Everyone knows RL helos are sensitive to inputs, but a Hip-sized chopper just IS NOT as nervous and twitchy as the DCS Hip with an el cheapo linear-response joystick. And you can overcome most of the extreme end oversensitivity anyway if you trim properly, because your controller's physical centrepoint and the virtual cyclic's trimpoint will be identical when you release the button (they'll be "in the same place" so to speak). You'll have to trim a lot, granted, but RL choppers need constant trimming as well so that's just something you gotta do, cos you gotta do it. So curves, for some, are actually a must. But I'll freely grant you that a JS extension is an overwhelmingly better solution if you can swing it, so by all means go down that route if at all possible. Some can't for various reasons though, and hence, curves. /rant EDIT: some expressions, terms, etc. Edited February 11, 2020 by msalama The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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