Range on AGM-65E? - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-08-2018, 08:54 AM   #11
flagg
Junior Member
 
flagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 21
Default

This video shows the problem clearly. Not done by me.
Dated 31 May 2018. Not fixed.



Last edited by flagg; 11-08-2018 at 08:56 AM.
flagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 09:05 AM   #12
Bankler
Junior Member
 
Bankler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale View Post
Didn't see this in Wags' tutorial and there does not appear to be a "Shoot" cue, but I've been able to get kills from 16 NM. The missile will loft to about close to 15K from shot at 5K as per the practice mission, but beyond that, the missile detonates short of the target...Anyone know if there's a Shoot Cue other than the colored in boxed X cue?
I did some testing yesterday, to find out what's the reasonable distance to hit. This is what I came up with:

At 400 kts IAS, firing at stationary MBT:
  • To hit from the max laser range (~16nm) you need to be at 7000 feet.
  • If you get within 10nm from the target, you can be as low as you want.

A missile fired at 400kts / 10nm / 100 ft will hit the target.
Bankler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 09:18 AM   #13
randomTOTEN
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 32
Default

Is it even possible to illuminate a target more than ~8nm away? In clear daylight weather?
Perhaps the simulation should deny any lock if there is no object in the Laser's line of sight and within the set distance....
randomTOTEN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 11:33 AM   #14
Ramsay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by randomTOTEN View Post
Is it even possible to illuminate a target more than ~8nm away? In clear daylight weather?
Yes, 8 nm (14 km) max range is a reasonable approximation for self designation in good conditions.

If the laser designator is closer, the laser spot can be detected from further away.

Conversely, if the illuminating laser is further away, the weapon needs to be launched closer.

IMHO Angle of incidence and meteorological visibility (14 km -> 4 km) are more important RL factors that reduce the effective range.

This chart is for the 'best case' but gives the general shape of all the curves and how angle of incidence effects detection.



Note: The AV-8 Tactical Manual Vol 1 (A1-AV8BB-TAC-000) has a detailed description of the AGM-65E's ranges - it''s 30°/20nm Visibility chart is close to the above green curve with a max acquisition range of 9.75 nm (18 km).

I'd say the DCS LMAV seeker over performs as it can acquire targets at 16 nm (30 km), while the real max acquisition range is around 12 nm (22 km).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Laser Designator, LGB, ranges for different angles of incidence.JPG
Views:	415
Size:	59.5 KB
ID:	197371  

Last edited by Ramsay; 11-08-2018 at 01:27 PM. Reason: General chart matches AV-8B NATOP's pretty well
Ramsay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 01:15 AM   #15
Alphamale
Member
 
Alphamale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsay View Post
Yes, 8 nm (14 km) max range is a reasonable approximation for self designation in good conditions.

If the laser designator is closer, the laser spot can be detected from further away.

Conversely, if the illuminating laser is further away, the weapon needs to be launched closer.

IMHO Angle of incidence and meteorological visibility (14 km -> 4 km) are more important RL factors that reduce the effective range.

This chart is for the 'best case' but gives the general shape of all the curves and how angle of incidence effects detection.



Note: The AV-8 Tactical Manual Vol 1 (A1-AV8BB-TAC-000) has a detailed description of the AGM-65E's ranges - it''s 30°/20nm Visibility chart is close to the above green curve with a max acquisition range of 9.75 nm (18 km).

I'd say the DCS LMAV seeker over performs as it can acquire targets at 16 nm (30 km), while the real max acquisition range is around 12 nm (22 km).
Love charts, thanks
__________________
"Circular error probability zero. Impact with high-order detonation. Have a nice day! " ...or, you could just say "SHACK"
Alphamale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 01:28 AM   #16
Alphamale
Member
 
Alphamale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flagg View Post
This video shows the problem clearly. Not done by me.
Dated 31 May 2018. Not fixed.


Hmm, interesting video...so you think the mavs for the F18 are/will behave the same way? I shot one at just under 17nm and did a half loop egress to put me at 180 deg to tgt and it still flew a straight line...one time missing about 25 meters short and the other hitting...so I son't think it has the same problem as the AV8B...thanks for the video
__________________
"Circular error probability zero. Impact with high-order detonation. Have a nice day! " ...or, you could just say "SHACK"
Alphamale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 01:43 AM   #17
Deano87
Member
 
Deano87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 487
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale View Post
Hmm, interesting video...so you think the mavs for the F18 are/will behave the same way? I shot one at just under 17nm and did a half loop egress to put me at 180 deg to tgt and it still flew a straight line...one time missing about 25 meters short and the other hitting...so I son't think it has the same problem as the AV8B...thanks for the video
The movement shown in the video is related to the aircraft firing the laser. Not the launching aircraft. Since the Hornet is not lasing the target itself at the moment it doesn’t matter what you do with the aircraft after launch. In my video I launch a Maverick from a Harrier with a TPOD which is also lasing the target. Hence the aircrafts manoeuvres have an effect on the Maverick, at least when the range to target is beyond 8nm.
__________________
DCS F-16C REALLY IS A THING! - BLOCK 50 BABY!!!

My Screenshots = FLICKR ALBUM
Deano87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 02:03 AM   #18
Alphamale
Member
 
Alphamale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deano87 View Post
The movement shown in the video is related to the aircraft firing the laser. Not the launching aircraft. Since the Hornet is not lasing the target itself at the moment it doesn’t matter what you do with the aircraft after launch. In my video I launch a Maverick from a Harrier with a TPOD which is also lasing the target. Hence the aircrafts manoeuvres have an effect on the Maverick, at least when the range to target is beyond 8nm.
Two lasing sources? At the same time? Yours and a buddy?
__________________
"Circular error probability zero. Impact with high-order detonation. Have a nice day! " ...or, you could just say "SHACK"

Last edited by Alphamale; 11-09-2018 at 02:05 AM.
Alphamale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 02:07 AM   #19
backspace340
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale View Post
Two lasing sources? At the same time? Yours and a buddy?
In the video there is just one source - the TPOD on the harrier. The Hornet won't have the same issue until it gets the ATFLIR (unless they fix it before then).
backspace340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 02:09 AM   #20
Alphamale
Member
 
Alphamale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 519
Default

And you're saying that the MAV seeker guides the missle to a point in space that is 10nm from your TPOD and that's why it veers off as you turn away from the point of launch?
__________________
"Circular error probability zero. Impact with high-order detonation. Have a nice day! " ...or, you could just say "SHACK"
Alphamale is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:43 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.