Show me your mad dogfighting skills!

Yeah, hopefully something will be done about that guy in the update we'll be getting soon...

Amen. :D

This is the worst and most ridicolous AI I ever encountered.

This is a simulation - it needs and deserves an AI that simulates a real opponent.

Not a Terminator on steroids.

Period.

Amen. :D

This is the worst and most ridicolous AI I ever encountered.

This is a simulation - it needs and deserves an AI that simulates a real opponent.

Not a Terminator on steroids.

Period.

Haha you have voiced some of my most frustrated moments perfectly. Of course it's all a work in progress and I'm sure ED is well aware of the fact that the enemy opponent does not simulate a true human pilot at this point. And it has been stated many times by them that the enemy damage model is "in the works" As for now... it's a training tool that, if not anything else, shows you the edge of the performance envelope for the P-51D and makes you tiptoe on that edge. Not too many pilots in the 40's could do that for very long with the luxury of discussing it over drinks later :thumbup:

Phew... good to know I'm not alone... ;)

Good to hear about the fact that the devs are aware of this issue.

For your enjoyment, Konrad.

http://webfortress.com/DCS/zombiepilot928.jpg

@ Konrad & Merlin

The annoying thing is that you can shoot him to pieces... he is still flying and going after you...

He can take way too much damage. Even worse: There is little change in his performance when heavily damaged...

And I don't want to talk about the ridicolous "climb-till-stall", "turn-harder-than-hard" and "accelerate-like-a-rocket" maneuvers...

I agree the DM is too robust at the moment (and you've done well if you've taken off an aileron without a coming together!)

Yeah the DM is in need of some further work - there does need to be at some point a degradation of performance with the AI relative to damage - rather than he's fully operational and will hunt like a terminator UNTIL he switches his lights on and goes for the nearest base - agreed!

It would be great if AI flt controls could be shot off and AI guns disabled, Engine stop, bits coming off, AI tries to escape without turning lights on, low level and fast, etc, that would be really realistic. Please ED, when you can?!?

I certainly agree that it's unrealistic at the mo that unless you defeat the AI, even if it's full of holes and smoking like a volcano (often from places fuel or smoke has no business emanating from), & then it still hunts you down like a terminator - this does need to change at some point if we want believable realism - again when pos ED, this would make a massive difference.

However I do think the AI FM is LOADS better than people give it credit for at the moment - I used to think it 'accelarated like a rocket' away from me, and that the climb to stall was unrealistic, but the more I fly the more I think I need to refine the smoothness of my technique and abilities!

Even the higher than player G tolerance I really am beginning to think is my poor flying... Certainly it needs to be remembered that the AI flys perfectly - but I really don't think it cheats. Certainly I'm getting much better at keeping right up with it anyway for prolonged periods and am working out how to overcome these problems.

The 'accelarate like a rocket', I'm pretty convinced is a combination of an inefficient turn by me and the phenomena of - he's out of the turn before I am and so he cleans up his ac so he can accelerate (relative to me) usually very fast with power and gravity, whilst I'm still finishing my turn (with all that wing load drag and usually some assymetric drag).

The effect is a bit like when you watch two F1 cars go around a hairpin corner close together - the leader always shoots into the distance before the follower can get on the throttle, but at the next 'corner' you catch him up.

'climb to stall' is something I see the AI do fairly rarely but when I've put him under real pressure - this is pretty realistic according to Chuck Yeager! This can be an excellent shooting opportunity, but it can also be a opportunity to burn your engine and end up with him on your tail! But as far as I can tell its real World!

' Turn harder than hard' only yesterday I was bugged by this as i kept losing a wing in a downward vertical scissor that got tighter and tighter and I was thinking the AI must be cheating, but then I realised I was always trying to turn inside him (only slightly) but still inside him - once I realised this I floated my turn to just outside of his and I could match him move for move and no redesign of player ac.

The FM even makes some mistakes such as turning into your flight path occasionally so that seems pretty human to me

In conclusion I agree whole heartedly that the DM needs to be 'finished'. It would benefit greatly from degradation due to battle damage - including flt surface loss, gun operation loss, power loss / engine failures, less fuel / smoke from last third of wings, debris falling off - we don't want much ED :D

BUT the FM is pretty good already considering it is just AI. And in my opinion / experience doesn't cheat. We just need to improve our flying skills to keep up with an excellent adversary.

I totally disagree. ;)

Because I can "outfly" this bastard at any time. :smartass:

He really isn't that good.

I disagree with your disagreement, and raise you 2 disagreements (with all due respect),, the currrent AI has to go!

In the first place I really hate the fact that he can swallow .50 rounds like popcorn.

This is driving me nuuuuuuuuts! Aragaaaaragaraggaagaaaaaaaaaah! :furious::furious::furious:

:D:D:D

"Climb-till-stall", "turn-harder-than-hard" and "accelerate-like-a-rocket" is something I can handle.

But it's boring me to pieces...

"Climb-till-stall":

You get on his tail - he pulls up... you follow (if you are quick enough to trim at the right moment...) you'll end up listening to the farting noise of your pop-off valve if you don't ease the throttle soon enough.

If you do so - he will still climb at full throttle... and his radiator gate is not even opend one bit... and you'll fall behind...

I finally gave up to follow him. Instead I break to one side and climb in a rather wide curve with the most energy saving elevator trim and stick movement possible to gain height.

But to be honest: He is running into overheating trouble as well. After several of these manouvers he will be easy on the throttle for a while. You can hear that.

This is a good opportunity to get him - well... if he only would fall down after you depleted your entire ammo... :cry:

Btw: Most pilots considered this manouver as a suicide move. It's like playing the "sitting duck" in front of the hunters gun...

I think this happend when a unexperienced pilot was in a panic.

Probably Chuck Yeager was talking about rookies.

The "turn-harder-than-hard" thing:

I'm pretty much able to pull similar turns...

But at this extremes it is really hard to stay focused on:

prevent the plane from stalling, look at your opponent, aim, shoot - and then hit our perky bastard...

You managed to accomplish this task? Fine. Unfortunatelly it was useless - because he merrily swallows your 12.7mm rounds... and is going after you again... AAAAaaaaaaarghhh! :cry:

In addition: maneuvers like that are quite physically demanding and exhausting for a real pilot. Nobody would ever be able to pull this stunt on and on... and on... and on... :mad:

"Accelerate-like-a-rocket":

Yes, it is hard and needs a good feel for the plane and lots of practice to accelerate efficiently.

But I relate to the fact that when you are in a height advantage and our master-blaster-super-flyboy :D is about 500 meters below, he pulls up, I'll open the throttle to full, decent a little... gain a gap of approximately 500 meters before he points in my direction (at virtually stall speed - you know: the "climb-till-stall" thing ;)).

At this point I check my speed: 400 mph.

Useless: I could have saved the fuel... He will close the gap... get's in shooting range... Guess what happens... yep: my next action is pulling the canopy release lever and: bailout...

I studied a lot of track-files to check out how to handle the P-51.

And I also checked the tactics of the AI.

Of course, everything the AI does is possible. But it's all exaggerated.

[EDIT Hey Konrad - you replied while I was replying will read your last and reply ASAP - END EDIT]

:) That's fair enough - It's just my opinion.

I like the AI FM / behaviour model (as you may have guessed) - it pushes me to find solutions to problems - fighting vertically is challenging - but the AI has it's repetitive moments certainly - BUT it is just AI (as I said) - BUT again... things can always be improved upon!

I assume you gentlemen aren't disagreeing / disagreeing squared, with the bit where I didn't disagree, otherwise I most strongly disagree with you disagreement / disagreement squared on grounds of utter confusion, and I'm gonna need to start keeping records and get an Admin assistant :D

I just felt the AI FM / behaviour was getting an very unfair and very general bashing when this (taken separately) is 'fit for purpose' IMO, BUT not a perfect virtual human.

But that's why we've got MP.

The AI is hard and in previous threads it was largely agreed it didn't cheat (& IMO), that means I can learn.

The DM is another matter completely.

Respect S!

I assume you gentlemen aren't disagreeing / disagreeing squared, with the bit where I didn't disagree, otherwise I most strongly disagree with you disagreement / disagreement squared on grounds of utter confusion, and I'm gonna need to start keeping records and get an Admin assistant :D

Due to the fact that English is not my mother tongue, I had to read that sentence quite frequently to come to the conclusion that I did not understand the content.

:D:D:D

And, hey, yes... would be nice to meet you in the virtual skies to shoot you down. :D

Or vice versa... :music_whistling:

:joystick:

What about the weekend?

Should be fun!

Respect, too!

Salute!

Hey Konrad - I planned to get some stick time now - Some good points made and I share your passion! - will reply before I hit the sack - V

You keep replying while I'm replying...:D

Lets do that, that would be excellent fun!! - I hardly do any MP stuff.

My Dad's 80th Birthday this weekend so away, but Monday or Tuesday would be cool I'm GMT what are you? Or the following weekend of course... if better for you?

Sorry about the confusing sentence it was meant to be funny:D

Lets do that! You'll probably roast me alive :)

R S!

[EDIT Gone flying, will check in later tonight END EDIT]

I said I'd post a tube so...

Nothing supernatural going on here - sorry about the skids :(

(edit - I can only do something close to this in about 1 in 20 or 30 attempts - otherwise I'd be utterly bored obviously :) Nice new dive away manoeuvre at the end ED! - end edit)

Sorry for the late reply... :music_whistling:

But I was really busy the last few days.

I'm not sure if I can spend time online on monday or tuesday...

I'll drop a message if it's possible.

If not, there surely will be another opportunity to meet online. :D:joystick::D

Btw: I'm GMT +1

Can't watch you video. Currently the connection to YT is quite slow.

I'll check it later.

No worries at all Konrad.

I'm away from home now otherwise i'd post a TRK file.

Yeah it'd be good to fly with you sometime but no worries.

S!

I knew it...

:D

I've been looking more closely at the cockpit and found two disturbing details.

Now I know why it is so hard to take the AI pilot down...

;)

 

I assume you gentlemen aren't disagreeing / disagreeing squared, with the bit where I didn't disagree, otherwise I most strongly disagree with you disagreement / disagreement squared on grounds of utter confusion, and I'm gonna need to start keeping records and get an Admin assistant :D

 

 

Respect S!

Hey VMAN, I need some of that shit you're on!!! :megalol:

Hey VMAN, I need some of that shit you're on!!! :megalol:

A psychosis.

The poor guy has been trying for too long to defeat the AI...

:joystick:

:D:D:D

Hey VMAN, I need some of that shit you're on!!! :megalol:

Hey Bill,

Yeah I chuckled out loud as that one came off the keyboard :)

Cheers Dude!

A psychosis.

The poor guy has been trying for too long to defeat the AI...

:joystick:

 

:D:D:D

Hey Konrad,

I wasn't sure how to take your last post to start with :noexpression:, but I'll go on the assumption your just busting my chops in a friendly way:)

Anyway - Nice art work - the Terminator pilot is real nice!

I don't know if you know, but the gun sight 'technical failure' one could be confusing, so it's probably worth pointing out to others, that the k-14 sight bug was fixed several updates ago.

The K-14 sight works perfectly now!!

We really ought to practise A2A together sometime dude, as we're 'globally local' so to speak - 1h dif and all that - I'd really be up for some FRIENDLY competitive sparing.

I think I can host, and have TS but might need some tips on using it for the first time - seriously PM me if interested - no worries at all if not mate.

V

Hey Konrad,

 

I wasn't sure how to take your last post to start with :noexpression:, but I'll go on the assumption your just busting my chops in a friendly way:)

 

Anyway - Nice art work - the Terminator pilot is real nice!

 

I don't know if you know, but the gun sight 'technical failure' one could be confusing, so it's probably worth pointing out to others, that the k-14 sight bug was fixed several updates ago.

 

The K-14 sight works perfectly now!!

 

We really ought to practise A2A together sometime dude, as we're 'globally local' so to speak - 1h dif and all that - I'd really be up for some FRIENDLY competitive sparing.

 

I think I can host, and have TS but might need some tips on using it for the first time - seriously PM me if interested - no worries at all if not mate.

 

V

LOL- I was kidding! :D

I was referring to the fact that the AI can drive you quite crazy. ;)

A little bit of teasing in a friendly way. ;)

About the K-14:

I was referring to the fact that you can shoot at the AI with correctly set gun sight - and this hell-of-a-pilot gets away with not a single scratch.

(shush... a small protective claim... so no one notices that I'm a bad marksman. :music_whistling:)

The K-14 works great.

But the speeds are extremely high so I most likely use only the collimator sight (most of the time even without the ring) and shoot intuitively. And I really get better results that way.

Btw: I did not even know that there was a K-14 bug... I'm quite new to the P-51.

I'll send you a PM when I got time for a online sortie.

That will be great fun!

Unfortunately I can't get on TS. I don't have a regular sounddevice. I'm using a external firewire audio-interface (I run a small home-studio). So I can't use a regular PC headset.

So for me it will be the good old typing when online... ;)

A little bit of bragging: :music_whistling:

I shot the AI down 38 times till now.

Unfortunately I lost my virtual life 40 times...:cry:

[EDIT] Update: it's 42:40 now. :D

Nice one Konrad,

Sounds like you're having more than a little success! excellent flying by the sounds :thumbup:

Yeah pm if you get a moment - weekends are usually best - see if you can't give me 24hrs notice or something (if pos) no worries if not.

V

To celebrate my 100th aerial victory against the AI bastard - here is the video of this fight:

Congratulations man that's some seriously good going!

I know posting a vid (rendering / uploading) is time consuming but when you do a particularly good fight with some funky moves or some close shaves or whatever, share it with the community dude - I for one really enjoy watching (& learning) from others dogfighting.

Although I'd understand if you had some 'trade secrets':)

I just checked my stats as not been counting and it's 74 - so hats off to you! :thumbup: