Show me your mad dogfighting skills!

Here's my tracks vs AI using 1.22 version.

It seems going right and high is first step in settling on AIs back. Too bad I have poor shooting skills.

vsAI.trk

vsAI2.trk

vsAI3.trk

Practice and joystick settings.

Well maybe you could have a look at this and tell me what i am doing wrong in order to get faster turnings.

I just can't get around acc. stall... it's too bad and I don't know how to turn faster without stalling.

I fire every time when experiencing acc stall

I think it's worth considering the flip side of setting a curve on your joystick axes, pitch in particular. Generally a curve will help you get better, more precise control around the neutral position. This is good for takeoff, formation flying, cruising, and other flights where you are not maneuvering heavily. But if you are dogfighting, your joystick will often be held well back of neutral. If you are flying with a curve, this means it will probably be in that part of the curve where inputs have much more amplitude and it takes only a little stick movement to cause a big control surface movement. Maybe this is not helping with the maneuvering difficulties at least some of our new pilots experience.

Hey Manuel,

I don't use any curve settings and I get on just about fine most of the time (after lots of practise).

You no doubt know that the tighter the turn the higher the drag / slower you'll get. But regardless of speed and as you're finding the high turn limit is when you get a vibration (the stall buffet) quickly followed by the Stang not wanting to fly anymore...

You need to find this edge (the vibration) VERY sensitively, and not cross it, or at least not bash through it.

If you approach this 'vibration edge' carefully enough then you can stop pulling at the first hint of it and 'hold that pull' - you're now achieving the highest possible turn rate for your speed / power / weight (nothing personal :)). You will however be bleeding speed quite quickly but thats another story.

If you go beyond this point and it starts to stall, a very quick TOUCH of nose down AND (if necessary) opposite rudder, will have you back and stable - a very gentle touch and lots of lovely practise is was worked for me.

I squash a few accelerated stalls in my vid in this thread, (post # 166) - at around 1min 50 secs and 7min 25 secs if your interested.

Your keeping the ball dead centre, that's essential - nicely done!

I'm new to the mustang, but I use the MSFF2 and you get a nice stall buffet, so I know how much I can pull, wich is next to nothing (I don't use curves or dead zones), what I do find is that the mustang already gives you it's very best turn with this near no pulling on the stick, seriously it will out turn (turn rate) an A-10 or F-15, my experiences were against AI so that can be inacurate, and the F-15 was good enough to allways extend away after the first 180º of turn. But I found that after the merge the mustang would easily have nose first on them.

Well maybe you could have a look at this and tell me what i am doing wrong in order to get faster turnings.

 

I just can't get around acc. stall... it's too bad and I don't know how to turn faster without stalling.

 

 

 

I fire every time when experiencing acc stall

You're pulling too much. Keeping it slightly outside of buffet is the goal for max performance. But max performing is not quite a goal since that burns off too much energy as others already said.

Here are my curves (so to speak)

I finally beat him!!:thumbup: Even with stalls and bad aim....

Thanks for all the replies. I will try to implement them today evening. If I get something like ZoSo did, I will post it ;)

Nice one Zoso! it aint easy is it!

Fine choice of music also!

I have been trying to get that sucker down for the last 3 hours. Now I am frustrated as hell!!!

#

Did not hit him one time!

I have been trying to get that sucker down for the last 3 hours. Now I am frustrated as hell!!!

#

Did not hit him one time!

Well... I hit him quite often...

but it seems that the AI is flying a special bulletproof version of the P-51...

Despite his perforated and smoking plane this bastard was merrily attacking for another 15 minutes.:furious:

I gave up when I ran out of ammo...:cry:

Yeah know the feeling! You'd think you'd have the upper hand, the EA's all shot up, but I make a mistake and he still comes after me like the terminator & shoots me down! :)

It would be most excellent if the AI's performance reflected it's level of damage, as it does with the player AC - in a simplified way at least.

And also if the vulnerable parts of the EA, such as ailerons, etc. were damaged / lost from gunfire, and not only collisions as it seems to be at the mo.

It does seem as if the P51 model is too strong at the moment. Unless it's the players machine, with all the detailed systems, in which case it's probably about right, I guess.

To destroy one on the ground in a strafing run you have to give it about 3+ seconds of continuous accurate fire!? (and I'm not talking about a 'static object').

But they do burn nicely when you hit them right both in the air and on the ground so stick at it Konrad Friedrich, but you have a good point!

I agree, he seems to have the edge in every respect, I still haven't got him yet...

Oh, I've already shot him down several times.

9 aerial victories until now.

But, alas... it's so frustrating when this cheeky bastard just does not fall to the ground...

even when his plane has more holes then Swiss cheese...

:badmood:

But you have to stay very focused. And use every trick you can do.

And well... it feels like the AI ​​pilot loses less speed in sharp turns than my P-51...

And... grmbl... he has sniping abilities... hmpf... :furious:

I started with the "average" and the "good" KI pilot.

Took me a while to be able to cope with the "excellent" one... And it's still pretty hard... :joystick:

Btw: It's a good idea to learn to use the gyro sight of K-14 gun sight.

It really helps!

I mapped the K-14 controls to the coolie hat of my throttle.

I'll record a *.trk file next time and post it here.:smilewink:

The accuracy of those AI .50 bullets is what has been frustrating me the most. If he gains my six, most of his fired rounds will end up lodged somewhere in my fuselage... which typically ends badly. (heat seeking lead? :D) How many times have you looked back in a turn and watched him lining up on you hoping to shake him like was possible in other sims? This is not a complaint by any means, and I will keep going back for more punishment. I keep telling myself, as I'm sure we all do, that such an environment will only make you a better combat pilot...along with an increased frequency of obscene outbursts and arm flailing at times.

I'm looking forward to the day where we will all be discussing the finer points of dogfighting 109s on here (AI or human)

@ Konrad

Oh, I've already shot him down several times.

9 aerial victories until now.

Sorry Konrad I misinterpreted what you said - nice going :thumbup:

I got my first couple of AI 'excellent' kills yesterday after revisiting BS2 for a bit and then getting back into this, it aint easy, as you say, but very satisfying and great fun.

-

@ Merlin

The accuracy of those AI .50 bullets is what has been frustrating me the most. If he gains my six, most of his fired rounds will end up lodged somewhere in my fuselage... which typically ends badly. (heat seeking lead? ) How many times have you looked back in a turn and watched him lining up on you hoping to shake him like was possible in other sims? This is not a complaint by any means, and I will keep going back for more punishment. I keep telling myself, as I'm sure we all do, that such an environment will only make you a better combat pilot...along with an increased frequency of obscene outbursts and arm flailing at times.

:) Yeah it's really tough to shake the AI off your 6 - but then the more I practise the more I realise how 'easy' it is to stay on the 6 of an AI opponent (once your there that is) - the difficult bit is getting there in the first place. And again the more I practise the more I only shoot when I'm going to have a high probability of a hit so I'm not so confounded by the highly accurate AI shooting, as I used to be at least. (doing a split S lowish to the ground usually persuades the AI not to follow...(EDIT certainly if he's carrying excess speed END EDIT))

I'm looking forward to the day where we will all be discussing the finer points of dogfighting 109s on here (AI or human)

Amen Brother! Bring on the day!!

-

It really would be great if a simplified performance degradation could be implemented for AI as they're damaged & the damage model could include losing control surfaces! It would enhance realism no end! ...But I know priorities, and performance limitations, etc, etc.... when you can is good enough ED.

I'm looking forward to the day where we will all be discussing the finer points of dogfighting 109s on here (AI or human)

Oh, since we already show a masochistic tendency when we plunge into the dogfight with the P-51, I would prefer the Focke-Wulf 190 Dora.

Would be the more frightening opponent. :blink:

Or... what about the Me 262?!? :laugh:

@ Konrad

 

Sorry Konrad I misinterpreted what you said - nice going :thumbup:

 

Don't ask how often this cheeky hell-of-a-pilot shot me down... :blush:

Oh, since we already show a masochistic tendency when we plunge into the dogfight with the P-51, I would prefer the Focke-Wulf 190 Dora.

Would be the more frightening opponent. :blink:

Or... what about the Me 262?!? :laugh:

:) Most definitely, the FW190 would be my ideal choice for a good fight :D The 262 might be a touch too masochistic, but it would be a lot of fun trying to spot them from up top and zooming in trying to lead them in a high speed dive :D

Wouldn't it be awesome if we had the FW190 as the next flying legend - how busy would it get around here!!!!

Oh, since we already show a masochistic tendency when we plunge into the dogfight with the P-51, I would prefer the Focke-Wulf 190 Dora.

Would be the more frightening opponent. :blink:

Or... what about the Me 262?!? :laugh:

Both are good choices. I personally, know more about the 109, and have done some extensive reading on flying and tactics of some of the great Me pilots. Not to mention, from everything I know about ww2 aviation, if you like painful learning curves then attempting to master the take-off and landing in a Me-109 without becoming a flaming pile of scrap, is for YOU! :smartass:

The 262 would be interesting but if we are sticking with historically accurate... you will be camping airfields hoping to just catch a glimpse of the thing.

Ok, as promised... Here is my dogfight with the AI pilot.

See attached file.

Sorry but I don't have "fraps" so it's just a *.trk file.

To be honest... I have not flown the P-51 for three days and had serious problems to control that wild horse... :joystick:

So please forgive the most obvious flaws in my flying... :music_whistling:

But at least I beat the AI on the first attempt. :D

I'm slowly getting better... :D

P-51D coping with the AI.trk

Nice Konrad, you made short work of him! Nice shooting.

My shooting is coming along nicely, but that was tidy dude!

My fights are almost always more drawn out than that, partly because I use a DIY mission with more spacing and alt, but mainly because my marksmanship still needs to improve :music_whistling:

Will post a track also when I have a mo.

:) ... Wouldn't it be awesome if we had the FW190 as the next flying legend - how busy would it get around here!!!!

Wow!!!, Just Furking Wow!!! - awesome - I love you ED!

It seems sometime soon we'll be able to stop practising and start some immersive combat ops between two worthy opponents!!

:cheer3nc:

The AI is annoying.

It's not that I can't cope with it.

I can avoid him. I can get on his tail.

After I practiced the P-51 for a while I think the AI is not even good. :D

The annoying thing is that you can shoot him to pieces... he is still flying and going after you...

He can take way too much damage. Even worse: There is little change in his performance when heavily damaged... :cry:

And I don't want to talk about the ridicolous "climb-till-stall", "turn-harder-than-hard" and "accelerate-like-a-rocket" maneuvers... :furious:

It is cutting the fun.

The AI needs rework. As soon as possible.:mad::mad::mad:

This AI guy lost one of his ailerons... had several holes... lost fuel... was smoking... - and was fighting for another 15 Minutes - with no change in performance...

Annoying...

Yeah, hopefully something will be done about that guy in the update we'll be getting soon...