Problems just after touch down - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-15-2019, 06:50 PM   #1
jfri
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 256
Default Problems just after touch down

When landing this plane I have big difficulties during the time after the touch down. It seem impossible to fly straight and when I try to counteract and tendencies of turning things easy go wrong. In best case I might find myself facing the opposite direction or going off the runway without crashing. But often I tilt somehow and crash the plane. I do hold back the stick
jfri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 08:35 PM   #2
TWC_SLAG
Member
 
TWC_SLAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfri View Post
When landing this plane I have big difficulties during the time after the touch down. It seem impossible to fly straight and when I try to counteract and tendencies of turning things easy go wrong. In best case I might find myself facing the opposite direction or going off the runway without crashing. But often I tilt somehow and crash the plane. I do hold back the stick
Keep the stick back, so the tail wheel is locked.
__________________
TWC_SLAG

Win 10 64 bit, 2T Hard Drive, 500GB SSD, ASUS B250 MB, Intel i7 7700 3.6ghz CPU, GTX 1080 SC GPU, 32gb DDR4 Ram, Track IR5, 49" 4K 60hz, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, 2xCougar MFDs, Gametrix Seat, Sim Shaker for Aviators
TWC_SLAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 08:50 PM   #3
Art-J
Veteran
 
Art-J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,695
Default

When the global tyre physics change for warbirds happened last year, with lateral grip of all tyres being reduced, it obviously affected the tailwheel lock effectiveness. Previously you just had to touchdown on three points with lock engaged and keep the stick back - the plane was straigtening up even if you botched the touchdown somewhat.

Although the change was supposed to reduce the groundlooping tendency of DCS warbirds, with taiwheel lock being MUCH less effective nowadays, I actually find 109 harder to land. I kind of like it that way, as the plane lives up to it's fearsome wartime reputation of being a nasty b..tch on the ground, but still - it's more challenging and requires more focus.

My advice for inexperienced 109 pilot - make sure that you touch down on three as straight as possible - try to keep the ball centered all the time and avoid just cutting the throttle (sudden changes of power seem to throw the nose sideways in 109 more than in other DCS warbirds). Roll off the power smoothly instead. Now, after the touchdown, with stick back you "just" have to be dancing on the rudder a lot, with fast left & right dabs rather than longer presses. Easier said than done, I know, but pretty much exactly as in the Spitfire you have more experience with I believe? Then as the plane slows down during the rollout it will become more stable eventually, so it's all about surviving the first few seconds after the touchdown.

You'll get there!
__________________
i5 4670K @ 4.4, single GTX1070, 16 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win7 x64.
Art-J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 10:20 PM   #4
jfri
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art-J View Post
to be dancing on the rudder a lot, with fast left & right dabs rather than longer presses.

That could be done in two ways.
1) The rudder
2) The brakes
Which ?
jfri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 11:22 PM   #5
razo+r
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,662
Default

Mainly the rudder (with locked tail wheel), but you can also use the brakes a bit.
razo+r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 09:59 AM   #6
Art-J
Veteran
 
Art-J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,695
Default

In no-crosswind conditions rudder is enough. For anything worse it's good to know the good brakes are there to help, but I don't fly this plane all that often to have sufficient crosswind experience with it.
__________________
i5 4670K @ 4.4, single GTX1070, 16 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win7 x64.
Art-J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 11:32 AM   #7
Ala13_ManOWar
Senior Member
 
Ala13_ManOWar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Spain
Posts: 1,985
Default

It's usually better not to brake until the aircraft is almost stopped, any inadvertent differential braking at high speed will cause a mayor disaster. With experience, lot of experience, it can be done but let that to later times when you already master it.


Take a look at wind socket before landing, if you do not land with face wind you gonna get a tough time. If you don't find or there's no wind socket available, watch chimneys around.


Make sure your tail wheel is still locked from take off, it's any good landing with an unlocked tail wheel.


Watch your airspeed, landing too fast or too slow means problems always. Try to keep some 250Km/H on final and set the wheels at some 200 or less.


Make a long and controlled final leg, don't rush trying to land after a steep curve right at the threshold. The old motto '80% of a landing is a correct glide path' is more true then ever on this kind of warbirds, and even more without experience on them.



And finally if all of that is correct, try to land right at the runway centre line and use rudder pedals, it doesn't have to be perfectly straight in the land roll but being in the centre first gives you room for some misalignment which is perfectly fine. But I mean use the rudder, not waiting until the veer is obvious but dancing on then as someone already said, all the time, right-left, right-left, no stop until the aircraft is well under control at a really slow speed, and I mean really slow, like a human walk or so.


S!
__________________
"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice
Ala13_ManOWar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 11:42 AM   #8
LeCuvier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: South of France
Posts: 1,603
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWC_SLAG View Post
Keep the stick back, so the tail wheel is locked.
Keeping the stick back puts downwards force on the tailwheel and that's the right thing to do. But to lock the tailwheel, you need to use the "Tail Wheel Lock" Handle which is at the left of the pilot! I have mapped it to a switch on my throttle grip and I set it to "locked" in the final approach.
__________________
LeCuvier
Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5
LeCuvier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 12:08 PM   #9
Quadg
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 570
Default

landing on huge modern runways does give the illusion that you don't need brakes
many temporary airfields in ww2 were on whatever flat ground you could find.
so you needed the brakes to minimise your stopping distance while not losing the plane in a ground loop.
like the British in the battle of Britain. using farm fields instead of airbases because the airbases were under attack.
and the 109 during the blitzkrieg years and retreats across France and Russia, needing to move with the front line.

so if you have lots of space you use rudder more than brakes.
but if space is tight you use both for minimum stopping distance.

we don't have that issue in DCS because even the Normandy map airfields are nice and long.
__________________
My Rig: i7 4930k 4.5Ghz, 16GB DDR3 2400, 2x SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.
Quadg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 08:43 PM   #10
jfri
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ala13_ManOWar View Post
It's usually better not to brake until the aircraft is almost stopped, any inadvertent differential braking at high speed will cause a mayor disaster. With experience, lot of experience, it can be done but let that to later times when you already master it.


Take a look at wind socket before landing, if you do not land with face wind you gonna get a tough time. If you don't find or there's no wind socket available, watch chimneys around.


Make sure your tail wheel is still locked from take off, it's any good landing with an unlocked tail wheel.


Watch your airspeed, landing too fast or too slow means problems always. Try to keep some 250Km/H on final and set the wheels at some 200 or less.


Make a long and controlled final leg, don't rush trying to land after a steep curve right at the threshold. The old motto '80% of a landing is a correct glide path' is more true then ever on this kind of warbirds, and even more without experience on them.



And finally if all of that is correct, try to land right at the runway centre line and use rudder pedals, it doesn't have to be perfectly straight in the land roll but being in the centre first gives you room for some misalignment which is perfectly fine. But I mean use the rudder, not waiting until the veer is obvious but dancing on then as someone already said, all the time, right-left, right-left, no stop until the aircraft is well under control at a really slow speed, and I mean really slow, like a human walk or so.


S!

During my last attempts I got the impression that just after touch down the rudder pedals has no effect at neither does the brakes. After the plane has slowed down a bit the brakes works. My touch down speed is below 200
jfri is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:22 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.