HP's Reverb VR Pro Headset

I have now played with the Reverb a couple of hours in DCS.

It’s great but not perfect.

I think it’s the same bump in clarity CV1->Rift S as Rift S->Reverb.

No performance problems, use the same settings as in the Rift S.

The bad:

- had some flickering, changed USB port and the it’s seems ok.

- the cable is heavy

- no nosegap. Really annoying. Is possibly to remove the notepad insert without destroying it?

You are right. I corrected my statement above. I may have seen just the green indicator a few times skyward. I will have to try it again. Are you noticing any ghosting or artifacts differences when on and off?

@Secoda - I think if you are hitting close to 90 you get the green block on the left. Light blue - CPU constrained, Dark Blue - GPU constrained, and Red only comes on when you are below the 45 and not reprojecting…

 

80% of the time both light and dark blue are on for me. I do see red with my hardware when I look at other player spawned planes. Usually more than 1 player plane in my view will kick me red on the ground. No issues when in the air. (less polygons with no gear, doors, or tires to draw)

I don't know what perfect might be in a VR headset with the lenses so close to your eyes. 8k or 16k resolution? They say 8K for a TV at normal viewing distances (it's all the human eye can resolve). :book: Also, eliminating any artifacts totally.

I can still remember my mother telling me not to sit too close to the TV growing up. lol VR kind of breaks that rule.

I wanted to be able to read the fine print, DDI/screens, and gauges and to see the distant airplanes, carriers details, etc. which I can now do with the Reverb. It's great. I came from the Lenovo Explorer which was 1440 x 1440 and the SDE and fuzziness fatigued me pretty quickly. I have done several three hour sessions with the Reverb and could go a lot longer if I could sit that long. SteamVR 3D movies are very good as are YouTube videos. The Desktop in the Cliff House from WMR is now useful from the Reverb. I have a nose gap (it doesn't touch my nose) but I can't peek out of it. I wish I could see the keyboard.

I have now played with the Reverb a couple of hours in DCS.

It’s great but not perfect.

I think it’s the same bump in clarity CV1->Rift S as Rift S->Reverb.

No performance problems, use the same settings as in the Rift S.

The bad:

- had some flickering, changed USB port and the it’s seems ok.

- the cable is heavy

- no nosegap. Really annoying. Is possibly to remove the notepad insert without destroying it?

Just like with the native resolution, WMR is also fairly confusing when it comes to the forms of reprojection it uses. Here's my findings (I'll do a copy/paste rather than offsite link, as I think that is politer here and I've already type it :) ) :

 

"If a game can reach around 55 to 60 fps the WMR with the default.vrsettings set to ‘auto’ will use something called ‘motion temporal reprojection’, which is the Microsoft clone of ‘Async Space Warp’ (ASW) on the Oculus side. It looks ahead/behind frames with GPU geometry to work out an in-between frame that’s pretty convincing. This allows the trees to appear smooth at 90 Hz in the headset, but DCS needs to reach about 60 fps.

 

If a game only reaches about 45 fps or less then WMR falls back to ‘asynchronous rotional reprojection’, which is what the old ‘Async Time Warp’ (ATW) used to be on Oculus, i.e. ok for moving your head around, but bad at predicting things moving outside the cockpit. When you see the cockpit moving ok but the trees to the side ‘jumping’ in WMR then it’s using reprojection but falling back to what it can do.

 

I didn’t realize before why it falls back to the older algorithm like that, but does explain what people see.

 

It’s also why DCS will just stick at 45 fps even if motion reprojection is not set to ‘auto’ in that config file or everything is left as defaults - it’s because it defaults to the old ‘asynch rotational reprojection’ by default unless the ASW equivalent is enabled or the app is reaching 90 fps.

 

It will be interesting if the DCS VR optimizations allow more people to get to 60 fps with more settings maxed out. In my experiments with the WMR reprojection, the ‘motion temporal reprojection’ is very good, i.e. very smooth sideways trees.

 

REF: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/enthusiast-guide/using-steamvr-with-windows-mixed-reality#enabling-motion-reprojection-for-steamvr-apps 2

 

Oh, plus should say. You can turn things on and off in the SteamVR settings stuff for the Valve ‘motion reprojection’ and all those things, then it’ll be completely ignored by the WMR headset. If you see any difference using those settings then it must be a placebo, as the reprojection steps only happen on the Microsoft driver side using its own rules/steps mentioned above I believe.

 

I think the resolution / super sampling percentage value is probably the only setting from SteamVR that is read, everything else is probably on the Windows WMR side of things.

 

It seems the best ‘tuning’ algorithm for WMR and using reprojection in DCS would be:

 

Go to the default.vsettings file and comment out (using //) the motion line, i.e. turn it OFF.

 

Test DCS with your settings. Adjust them so you get to 55 to 60 fps with the resolution / super sampling you want.

 

Go back to default.vrsettings and uncomment the line (remove the //) so it says “motionReprojectionMode” : “auto”, in there.

 

That way you’ll get smooth tree sideways and reprojection working properly. The things I didn’t realize before were:

 

WMR always has some form of motion reprojection on, it’s just the simpler ‘rotational’ type (where looking sideways causes judders for example) if it can’t make some headroom over 45 fps (it seems typically you need 55 to 60 fps to be safe).

 

The fancy ‘motion vector’ reprojection is very good, but needs to be turned on in that file. Once on then you’re only ever going to see either 45 or 90 in the fps read-out. Turning it off is useful to adjust detail settings.

 

WMR is like archaeology on how it works underneath. I half expect to find a stick of a certain length that’s going to refract the sun’s rays over a temple map through a jewel, so we can find out how to do nicer anti aliasing one day…;) "

have the motionreprojectionmode set to auto and also the reprojection indicator enabled but:

1)Any need to include this line (sure it came from a post)? - "driver_Holographic_Experimental" : {

"forceHalfRateWithReprojectionMode" : "motionvector",

2)Is 2.0 the best value for render target scale?

have the motionreprojectionmode set to auto abd also the reprojection indicator enabled but:

1)Any need to include this line (sure it came from a post)? - "driver_Holographic_Experimental" : {

"forceHalfRateWithReprojectionMode" : "motionvector",

2)Is 2.0 the best value for render target scale?

'forceHalfRateWithReprojectionMode' was deprecated and replaced with 'motionReprojectionMode' so no need for both. [1]

2.0 is meant to be the best and the max it will accept for now. [2]

[1] https://steamcommunity.com/games/719950/announcements/detail/3229520292644260853

[2] Info from Microsoft down from here:

The reprojection indicator stays green when the F-18 is pointed skywards but as soon as it lays over and much of the terrain appears it goes to a blue. So the FPS varies from about 60 to a full 90 in any condition I have tested with the Reverb. It is also green in SteamVR or at the DCS menu.

You are right. I corrected my statement above. I may have seen just the green indicator a few times skyward. I will have to try it again. Are you noticing any ghosting or artifacts differences when on and off?

'forceHalfRateWithReprojectionMode' was deprecated and replaced with 'motionReprojectionMode' so no need for both. [1]

 

2.0 is meant to be the best and the max it will accept for now. [2]

 

[1] https://steamcommunity.com/games/719950/announcements/detail/3229520292644260853

[2] Info from Microsoft down from here:

ok got it! - just wondering in game what fps will I see when I cant hit 90? (note usually it locks to 45 but have seen 60 before?)

also in the WMR portal whats the best settings (currently running Auto (hz) and high quality?) and for the first time today got the mouse issue

where in the headset I lost control of the cursor (little white circle) with the mouse had to remove the head set then I could move the mouse around and navigate the menu's but only with the headset off! - whats the work around for this? (note in some games if you hit win+Y you get control of the mouse in the headset again (note also I checked the mouse box in the VR options already!...…. )

@secoda - if I super sample in steamvr and only use dcs for msaa and af then not much. If i use dcs pd I do.

- no nosegap. Really annoying. Is possibly to remove the notepad insert without destroying it?

I have a nose gap (it doesn't touch my nose) but I can't peek out of it. I wish I could see the keyboard.

The nosepad is removable, just like on RiftS. Pull it out gently. It's reversible too.

 

If anyone has IL2 BoX you have got to fly it with this headset ...the towns look amazing as do the trees .....running it on ultra settings its the shit!

What kind of fps are you getting on Ultras when close to the ground in Kuban and Stalingrad?

I have reprojection on so I'm pegged at 45 very smooth ....never budges from that unless I'm in menus then it's 90

Well i think i’ve won the jackpot. I have 45 fps on high settings on dcs. My rig is not as good as yours. :D

I just received an email from HP to fill out a quality survey on the Reverb. (I ordered it very early on 6/1 and received it on 6/10) Despite the similar issues I keep reading about mine has performed admirably. I did zip tie the cable and connector to isolate them but one really shouldn't have to do that. I may wait a bit since I only have about twenty hours on it and some folks have seen things happen over time. I wonder if anyone will read it anyways? A chance to win a $50 gift card to HP. :noexpression:

I was reading one other slight advantage to getting the Reverb Pro model. The warranty is handle by the business/commercial group which is more responsive than the consumer side. I have seen a few consumer ones in videos but it seems like mainly the Pros are being shipped. Anyone get a consumer model?

Well i think i’ve won the jackpot. I have 45 fps on high settings on dcs. My rig is not as good as yours. :D

That was BoX .... in DCS I'm pegged at 45 as well but if I turn MSSA x 2 it drops a frame or 2 here and there ...What settings are you running? As that makes a big difference. Our rigs are closer then it seems ..

Hi everyone, my IPD is 67 mm, do you think reverb is ok for me or is it better wait for acer ojo? Thanks

Officially, HP says 63mm +/-8mm via software. I think that is a stretch. For best viewing I have read in some reviews +/-4mm or 59 to 67mm. You should be ok. 30 days to return if you don't like it. I am 64mm and I think the main difference I notice being so close to the physical setting is the sweet spot is large.

Comment from the HP Reverb product manager (John Ludwig, global lead VR headsets at HP Inc.). I think I easily see a 30% boost in the sweet spot over my Lenovo Explorer.

Ludwig noticed that with Fresnel lenses, HP found an inverse relationship between FOV and the lens clarity.

“We went to asymmetric because it allowed us to lower the per eye FOV, which boosts the clarity a bunch and increases the sweet spot about 33 percent. Then we combined both eyes.” Ludwig explained. “Our binocular FOV for both eyes has gone up from 110 to 114 degrees, but we managed to boost the clarity because we lowered the FOV per eye.”

I noticed a while back that the driver turns off the Reverb to save power and that stops the automatic "on" from the headset sensor so I went in and changed the power setting by unchecking that power management box under WMR devices in the Device Manager.

Hi everyone, my IPD is 67 mm...

Your choice... all I can say is mine 67mm and I have no issues at all so far.... YMMV though...

The straps on the other hand are a little 'neat' I'm tall and big... the straps are on their absolute minimum, top and sides, and it is a neat fit.... but in truth that area is easily fixed with a home made velcro extension...

Officially, HP says 63mm +/-8mm via software. I think that is a stretch. For best viewing I have read in some reviews +/-4mm or 59 to 67mm. You should be ok. 30 days to return if you don't like it. I am 64mm and I think the main difference I notice being so close to the physical setting is the sweet spot is large.

 

Comment from the HP Reverb product manager (John Ludwig, global lead VR headsets at HP Inc.). I think I easily see a 30% boost in the sweet spot over my Lenovo Explorer.

 

Ludwig noticed that with Fresnel lenses, HP found an inverse relationship between FOV and the lens clarity.

 

“We went to asymmetric because it allowed us to lower the per eye FOV, which boosts the clarity a bunch and increases the sweet spot about 33 percent. Then we combined both eyes.” Ludwig explained. “Our binocular FOV for both eyes has gone up from 110 to 114 degrees, but we managed to boost the clarity because we lowered the FOV per eye.”

Your choice... all I can say is mine 67mm and I have no issues at all so far.... YMMV though...

 

The straps on the other hand are a little 'neat' I'm tall and big... the straps are on their absolute minimum, top and sides, and it is a neat fit.... but in truth that area is easily fixed with a home made velcro extension...

Thank you for your answers :)

That was BoX .... in DCS I'm pegged at 45 as well but if I turn MSSA x 2 it drops a frame or 2 here and there ...What settings are you running? As that makes a big difference. Our rigs are closer then it seems ..

Max. Settings all the way. That’s the strange thing. Mssa 4x, Shadows high, af 16 x. Yep, CPU and GPU overclocked, but that can’t be a bizar difference in performance. :D

I don’t use the default.settings in wmr for steamvr. Gave me bad result in dcs. The pixel settings i have on 220 percent instead of 150 or 180. I skipped advanced settings program. Gave me bad result too. Ss on 1.5 in dcs settings. This gives me the best stutterfree best quality result.

Max. Settings all the way. That’s the strange thing. Mssa 4x, Shadows high, af 16 x. Yep, CPU and GPU overclocked, but that can’t be a bizar difference in performance. :D

 

I don’t use the default.settings in wmr for steamvr. Gave me bad result in dcs. The pixel settings i have on 220 percent instead of 150 or 180. I skipped advanced settings program. Gave me bad result too. Ss on 1.5 in dcs settings. This gives me the best stutterfree best quality result.

Haha, fly downtown Dubi and report back!

Haha, fly downtown Dubi and report back!

Already did, dropped to 38 fps. :D

I'm basing my tests on the F18 ready on the ramp mission...taxi and take off.....

ok got it! - just wondering in game what fps will I see when I cant hit 90? (note usually it locks to 45 but have seen 60 before?)

also in the WMR portal whats the best settings (currently running Auto (hz) and high quality?) and for the first time today got the mouse issue

where in the headset I lost control of the cursor (little white circle) with the mouse had to remove the head set then I could move the mouse around and navigate the menu's but only with the headset off! - whats the work around for this? (note in some games if you hit win+Y you get control of the mouse in the headset again (note also I checked the mouse box in the VR options already!...…. )

With motion reprojection on you'll only see either 45 or 90 in the fps readout, so it's best to turn it off to tune your settings/resolution (ideally about 55-60 fps for motion reprojection to reliably work).

The WMR portal settings of 'Settings / Headset display / Visual quality' are just used with WMR, i.e. WMR apps like the Cliff House. SteamVR does not use these, as it does the up/downsampling on its own side. Just set it to 'Very high (beta)' unless you have a very busy cliff house layout.

The 'Settings / Headset Display / Experience Options' has the 60/90/auto switch and the 'Auto' behavior will drop the default 90 to 60 if you have over 90 seconds of under 45 fps (which is where the default 'rotational reprojection' is probably being used as well). I personally can see a bit of a flicker at 60 Hz so set mine from 'Auto' to a fixed '90' so this doesn't happen (as in, I'd rather see a game judder badly and change game settings than switch down to 60 Hz automatically to avoid flicker). Some people don't mind 60 Hz, so it's one of those personal preferences.

I think that some players with DCS and (and too high settings to run) are actually being automatically switched down to 60 Hz without knowing it, with motion reprojection not being used, but just the plain rotational one instead. The SteamVR app will show the current panel Hz setting used.

I have reprojection on so I'm pegged at 45 very smooth ....never budges from that unless I'm in menus then it's 90

Ah, I see. In BOX is must have 90fps, cant' live with 45 like in DCS as air combat is much more close and anything much below 90 leads to double vision of fast moving targets.

Ah, I see. In BOX is must have 90fps, cant' live with 45 like in DCS as air combat is much more close and anything much below 90 leads to double vision of fast moving targets.

Weird I don't experience that at all.

Ordered the Reverb Consumer version from Amazon on April 26th. No sign of it on the horizon. Complete incompetence on the part of HP.