Easy Refuel Option

This game needs a easy refuel option when doing Air-air-refuel. Like if you're within 4 feet of the refuel box, that's close enough. Can't tell you how many times I've hit the stupid refuel tube only for it to refuse a connection. It's by far the most frustrating part of the game.

 

 

I just feel like shooting down the refuel tanker when I close in, just so I can have a sense of accomplishment. God knows I'm not refueling.

Sounds just like the problem i’ve had with AAR in the hornet. Even if the probe would be dead on the basket it just would NOT hook up. I almost gave up until i decided to check my key bindings, before i used the binding “probe control switch - Extend/retract” where the same button press both raises and lowers the probe. For somme strange reason, at least for me, this keybind will cause the probe to NOT hook up to the basket properly.

Instead I tried “probe control switch- up” and “probe control switch- Down” so that a different button is used for raising and lowering the probe. First Attemp with this config - a solid hook up and never had a problem since.

Might be worth a shot.

Easy Refuel Option

Learn to refuel, f-18 sorry to be rude but is only option

I don’t think your is a good response...in order to be proficient in AAR you have to do a lot of practice, have a lot of free time to mantain the skill and also a good hardware (stick with proper precision and extension).

I have the Warthog and an extension and i am pretty fast at doing AAR and i like realism but i can understand people with less expensive hardware e few free time...because some years ago..when the a10 was out i was no so good and didn’t have n hotas warthog...as soon as i got it i became immediately good at AAR.

so an easy option is no problem for me...i won’t use it bit maybe easier options in general will bring more people to dcs which later could improve and try the more realistic options later on

Options are always options, don't forget this. We also have rudder assist in prop planes which makes it possible to take off, fly and land them completely without rudder input devices while it is similarly hard to achieve that with rudder pedals without messing up totally compared to mastering AAR. So why not have an option that makes AAR easier? The mission editor is always free to decide whether to have it enabled or not.

But I'd also say let's wait for the AAR physics revamp first. I have less problems getting connected than staying connected. It's weird that when you plug in, move forward half a meter and then up a meter or two that you'd get disconnected whereas the hose should have plenty of room being able to get pulled up by 1 or 2 meters without disconnecting itself.

The hard thing really is that you have to stay within a 1x1x1m box (don't nail me on the exact numbers, it's probably more) to stay connected. Even if you push forward just a little to much it disconnects as if you just pulled it out by going backwards instead.

This game needs a easy refuel option when doing Air-air-refuel. Like if you're within 4 feet of the refuel box, that's close enough. Can't tell you how many times I've hit the stupid refuel tube only for it to refuse a connection. It's by far the most frustrating part of the game.

 

 

I just feel like shooting down the refuel tanker when I close in, just so I can have a sense of accomplishment. God knows I'm not refueling.

I agree

Options are always options, don't forget this. We also have rudder assist in prop planes which makes it possible to take off, fly and land them completely without rudder input devices while it is similarly hard to achieve that with rudder pedals without messing up totally compared to mastering AAR. So why not have an option that makes AAR easier? The mission editor is always free to decide whether to have it enabled or not.

 

But I'd also say let's wait for the AAR physics revamp first. I have less problems getting connected than staying connected. It's weird that when you plug in, move forward half a meter and then up a meter or two that you'd get disconnected whereas the hose should have plenty of room being able to get pulled up by 1 or 2 meters without disconnecting itself.

 

The hard thing really is that you have to stay within a 1x1x1m box (don't nail me on the exact numbers, it's probably more) to stay connected. Even if you push forward just a little to much it disconnects as if you just pulled it out by going backwards instead.

I agree with most of that. I just started DCS a few days ago and have already hooked up on the tanker with the hornet. trim trim trim. And patience. Learn what is going on and adapt.

Quite frankly I got into DCS because of the depth of simulation. I don't think we need another "easy button" to water down the sim. But, having said that, I agree that the refueling thing needs a workover. It disconnects way too easily.

Er, how so?

Well, at least for me. If I set some side wind - it gets harder to catch/hold the basket.

Not sure why you'd want an easier option for A2AR with the Hornet. its actually the easiest bird to refuel with. However you need to ensure that you have proper curves (up to 16) for your joystick and throttle axes. If you have a really good HOTAS then ok, but I don't. I realised that without these curves, small corrections (which is what you need to keep station and/or hit the basket) would result in big movements in the hornet such that I was all over the place. Once I put in the curves, little movements with the hotas resulted in little movements with the jet and suddenly I was able to move up/down/left/right/forwards/backwards in small movements so easily.

Another thing I realised is that you have to determine the tankers' speed. A lot of the time its 270kts however the tankers will then turn left/right (prob to keep on their nav points) and the speed will actually drop 1-2 kts so you need to keep that in mind as well. Once you know it, you just keep to it.

Tanking I find is very satisfying. Now most of my missions start out on the carrier where I load up to 30% fuel (if the tanker is close), then t/o, rendezvous, tank up, then head out. Sometimes I will take more munitions and will tank up again prior to hitting the target if there's a conveniently located tanker. Once I'm done most times I have the right amount of fuel to get back to the carrier.

So in summary...just practice (ie. git gud! lol) and ensure you have curves added in to your profiles.

Tip for easy refuel..

Line ud behind the plane and match its speed and altitude.

Turn on the autopilot to fly leven and maintain height

Now your joystick become very stiff and not very responsive = making it much more easy to do small adjustments and refuel the plane.

You can also next to your trottle push or pull a small black level in the plane so the trust become less sensitive as well.

You might have to add/reduce power a tiny bit while you refuel on/off all the time, but you will be able to refuel and keeping rather steady. = easy refueling.

Once you do the above its become much more easy to refuel for everyone.

PS:. if the tanker turns while you refuel then you cannot follow it.!!

I also found it frustrating to refuel and felt like shooting down the tanker...until I heard "look at the tanker, not the basket".

Seriously it sounds like a minor thing but for me it is the difference between incredible frustration and a minor challenge. This is with a MS FFB2 that has a hardware deadzone just to make small movements even harder to do :ermm:

That said, it would be good to have an easy refuel option for people learning and just getting into DCS. It can be overwhelming with so much to learn. Those of us who can AA refuel can always leave it off (it should be off by default).

Well, at least for me. If I set some side wind - it gets harder to catch/hold the basket.

Any wind acts on both you and the tanker, so has no effect*.

*with the exception of gusts/turbulence.

So little interest in fact that you didn't notice it had no refuelling probe lol:thumbup:

Proofs i don't like that aircraft at all :) I've seen picture of some F-5's refueling back then so i thught all variants were having probes, seems they didn't have it all :)

Proofs i don't like that aircraft at all :) I've seen picture of some F-5's refueling back then so i thught all variants were having probes, seems they didn't have it all :)

Thats a shame, Its a pretty fun little thing! But I suppose we're all different.:thumbup:

A presence of wind makes a huge difference as well.

It shouldn't. Only CHANGES in wind speed and direction can make a difference--that's called turbulence. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but all that matters is the "relative wind". That is, the wind from the point-of-view of the aircraft surfaces. You and the tanker aircraft could be flying into a 200-knot jetstream. The only difference it makes (disregarding any possibly included turbulence in a strong jetstream) is how fast the terrain slides underneath you. The air mass you fly in may be moving over the ground at 200 knots (wind) but your aircraft only cares about how fast it is moving through the air mass...or more accurately, how MUCH air is moving over the wings, control surfaces and through the engines.

The clouds should be moving with the air mass, too. If you are flying through a cloud at 300 knots true airspeed, you pass through it in the same amount of time as you would if the air mass you and the cloud are in is moving over the ground against your direction at 100 knots, with you at 100 knots or not moving at all. Wind is air mass movement in relation to the ground. Airspeed is aircraft movement in relation to the air mass.

I could see having an OPTION in the simulation to chose "snap" range of the basket as a "cheat" to make inflight refueling easier. But you have to be able to STAY in formation, too. Snap range could maybe be selectable between 0 and about 2 meters, maybe (0 - 6 feet). Right now, I think it is about 1 or 2 feet, fixed. I'm happy with it.

I understand the desire for a cheat with this. It is REALLY difficult, at first. I nearly gave up and resigned to the fact that I must be just a hopeless "whiskey-delta". LOL But then I tried and tried again. And then it happened!! The probe went in the basket! It came right out again and I got no fuel...because I looked full-on at the probe in the basket! But I was there. It was an improvement. Practice, practice.

Get lined up behind the tanker.

Match your speed. Always making "tiny" adjustments to throttle to stay matched with the tanker. Use pitch trim to trim for your new airspeed.

Find visual references between the tanker and the HUD symbols...don't look directly at the basket or you will turn to salt! ha ha Just keep slightly aware of the basket in your peripheral vision. And, of course, a mental image of where your probe is.

Make "tiny" corrections with the stick--and use the rudder a little. Anticipate the corrections that will be needed. Be a step ahead of the airplane.

Make small corrections in pitch, roll, yaw and speed (like +/- 1 knot)...practice, practice and you will get it. I have the Thrustmaster Warthog stick. It has stiff springs. But it responds to mere pressure on the stick, without flexing the spring. That kind of tiny movements. Hope that helps some.

I'm just above whiskey-delta...I seem to be able to get some fuel in the tanks before they run dry...but by no means to the sierra-hotel level, yet. :) I continue to improve.

A stick or yoke with noisy "pots" (analog potentiometers that don't hold a steady value or smooth response) can make it more difficult. My old analog stick had about 250 digits of response. The Warthog has about 64,000 (I think, or maybe 16,000). But when I center the stick, its axes read 0-x and 0-y, every time, with no fluttering. I think that makes some difference, too. I don't know that DCS sim reads all that resolution, though.

Option "Easy refueling" requested

I totally support the idea of getting some additional options that would allow to make areal refueling easier - so everyone could choose which fits best depending on individual skill and experience level...

For an occasional simmer (including myself) the current realistic / "very hard" setting is way too difficult and leads to a lot of frustration.

Other "tweaks" (e.g. easy recovery etc.) are also available, so why not for this annoying issue - an additional option has been asked for multiple times already.

I totally support the idea of getting some additional options that would allow to make areal refueling easier - so everyone could choose which fits best depending on individual skill and experience level...

 

For an occasional simmer (including myself) the current realistic / "very hard" setting is way too difficult and leads to a lot of frustration.

 

Other "tweaks" (e.g. easy recovery etc.) are also available, so why not for this annoying issue - an additional option has been asked for multiple times already.

Meanwhile try that: once established behind the refueller switch AP on in ATTH mode....that gives you a pretty stable Hornet and you still can make tiny changes with the stick to move onto the basket. Very handy and after just a little bit of practice no frustration anymore.

Easy mode? Naaah. Make it harder, give me wake turbulence from the tanker and the hose and basket bobbing about in the airflow. And then when I screw up I break the basket off on my probe and the tanker has to jettison the flailing hose and I have to RTB with the cone of shame. ;)

 

More seriously, just keep practicing dude. It’s meant to be hard, because it is pretty damn hard IRL. And this is a simulator after all... we are here because we are trying to simulate real life as closely as possible. When you DO finally crack it the satisfaction will be huge.

 

Lots of good tutorials on YouTube about it.

And start with baby steps of just trying to finesse your formation flying so you can hold station reasonably well before you start trying to hook up. Throttle control is super important and remember don’t chase the basket! I’ve found when teaching people and especially with a very light jet a bit of airbrake helps make the throttle a bit less sensitive, and having the afterburner gate fitted to your throttle (if your throttle has one) is also a good idea to stop you inadvertently going into AB during quick throttle movements.

+1

Every session I do a refuel and case1 recovery practice. Keeps me on my toes and that frustration stays away.

In our squadron we’ve been grinding away at 30-degree dive bombing pattern work for several weeks leading up to our internal Quarters competition but on nearly every offline practice session I fly at home, I go get gas from the KC-135 just to keep my AAR skills up to snuff.

It’s a vital skill that you just have to keep at until it clicks and then practice it religiously.

Our 510th Hornet drivers tank on every training flight.

I don't like to read boasting about AA refueling skills. They are hate average players who cannot be able to refuel, or only with the Su-33. One of myself. With 2D vision (monitor user), with a stick built in mini throttle, I even look around with the mouse.

+There are too many AAR capable planes in this sim to master.

I don't like to read boasting about AA refueling skills. They are hate average players who cannot be able to refuel, or only with the Su-33. One of myself. With 2D vision (monitor user), with a stick built in mini throttle, I even look around with the mouse.

Hey mate not boasting, I am just brilliant. It's probably down to my incredible good looks or something?

Meanwhile try that: once established behind the refueller switch AP on in ATTH mode....that gives you a pretty stable Hornet and you still can make tiny changes with the stick to move onto the basket. Very handy and after just a little bit of practice no frustration anymore.

This method in IMHO is somewhat an easy mode to learn as well.

It has really been a frustrating time for me over my flight sim life to refuel. I really understand how it feels to not be able to accomplish this vital parts of a combat mission and why the clamour for an easy option mode.

I really cannot tell why it is so difficult but with autopilot on I recently was able to tank successfully. It amazes me that once you get it the first time and you key in that acquired learning, ,it comes naturally subsequently.

Formation flying is very key, once this is learnt, AAR follows easily.

For the constant oscillation that kicks in a low speed in the hornet, I use autopilot and this helps.

The satisfaction was so immense when I first did a full tank AAR.

My next objective now is to be able to do AAR without autopilot On because you cannot continue refuel on autopilot once the tanker enter a turn.

 

My next objective now is to be able to do AAR without autopilot On because you cannot continue refuel on autopilot once the tanker enter a turn.

Yes, you CAN use the AP to make life a little easier, but if you plan on using a tanker as a regular thing in missions, you will be doing yourself a mischief by learning to tank with AP. There is no substitute for trial and error, practice, practice and more practice. I get that it's hard, I feel your pain guys, I have spent hours and hours trying to tank and I am still not perfect, it is a diminishing skill that fades really quickly. It's all about picking the right reference point (never the basket) and making small moves of the stick. If it helps, let go of the stick with the whole hand and just lightly grip it between two fingers and thumb, so lightly in fact that you feel like you are "thinking" the plane into the basket rather than actually trying to shove a burning stick up a moving cougar's balloon knot! :D

Easy mode: Alt+Z (slow down time)

This really helped me get better at AAR

What I do is as I line up behind the basket and then slow down time and drive into the basket. After doing this for about 10 times it made it much easier to do it in normal time.

Easy mode: Alt+Z (slow down time)

 

This really helped me get better at AAR

 

What I do is as I line up behind the basket and then slow down time and drive into the basket. After doing this for about 10 times it made it much easier to do it in normal time.

That's a good tip.

The old LOMAC did that. Maybe the new MAC will have it and that'll be more your speed. This here's the real stuff.

That's pretty snobby of you or anyone else who feels like shitting on noobs and PRECISELY the reason why the community has trouble attracting and retaining new pilots. Show a little empathy and support FFS.

I quite agree with the OP. There should be an advanced and basic section for all aspects of this game because, reality check, this here is NOT the real stuff.