[NOT A BUG] Friendly hemisphere doesn't appear for Link-16 donors

Version 2.5.5.33552

 

Steps to reproduce

Set up a mission with yourself in a Hornet, and one friendly Hornet and one friendly non-Link 16 donor (e.g. F-5E, F-14 etc) 20nm in front of you coming towards you. Add an AWACS to the mission too.

Lock the Hornet, lock the F-5

Expect: To see the hemisphere appear on the HUD for them both

Observe: The hemisphere only appears on the F-5, the Hornet stays unknown

 

 

If you're quick and you lock the Hornet before it starts broadcasting on Link-16, you'll see a hemisphere, but it then disappears as soon as it starts donating.

 

For some reason, I can't make a track of this smaller than 5.1mb (even though this is a super simple mission) and the forum limit is 5mb for tracks, so I've uploaded the track here: https://gofile.io/?c=U32PrG

Question - Is there a reason why a second donor is required for the friendly HAFU symbol to display?

 

 

 

Seems more logical to warn the pilot via HUD even with a single source (ownship) like successful IFF response from the plane? Is it not like that in the actual Hornet?

Not being able to see your track, it could be that you have no other aircraft IDing the F-5 as a friendly, the half-circle over the box requires you and a donor both IDing the target.

 

That is bizarre about the track- there is no F-14 in the mission on my machine, it's two Hornets, an F-5 and an AWACs. There isn't an F14 in the other track I submitted about HARMs either (that's just a Hornet and some Rolands). Sounds like that might be another bug?

 

And you've misunderstood - the F5E shows correctly with the friendly hemisphere, it's the Hornet that doesnt/stops showing the hemisphere as soon as it starts donating on Link 16. Both targets initially show the hemisphere as it takes a few seconds at the beginning of a mission for datalink to start working, as soon as it does (and from then on), the friendly hemisphere doesn't appear for any Link 16 donor.

There's something really broken with my tracks this patch - whatever mission I fly, whenever I try to save or rewatch the track it plays a completely different mission (afaik it's a mission I played a couple of weeks ago when I was setting up my new stick). I don't run any mods and I've tried repairing a couple of times this morning, but it's still broken. I've made a mission for you to test this, and I've captured a video of it as well (I also show the weird track bug - trying to watch what I just played, loads that F-14 mission).

 

 

At 00:56 in the video I lock the Hornet, at 01:03, it starts broadcasting on Link-16 and the hemisphere disappears. It doesn't appear again. The Hornet is on the left, F-5E on the right. There's also an AWACS up nearby.

friendlyhemisphere.miz

If it helps, I can confirm this behaviour.

 

Additionally if I may, I would like to point out that having the half circle hafu in the hud only for two source positive ID is not only not realistic but inconsistent with the way the ROE is coded as Wags explained.

 

If the radar (due to current ROE) identifies as friendly only with a positive mode 4 and no other source, then the hud should reflect this.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

Have a nice day.

If it helps, I can confirm this behaviour.

 

Additionally if I may, I would like to point out that having the half circle hafu in the hud only for two source positive ID is not only not realistic but inconsistent with the way the ROE is coded as Wags explained.

 

If the radar (due to current ROE) identifies as friendly only with a positive mode 4 and no other source, then the hud should reflect this.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

Have a nice day.

No, the half-circle is only for a datalink (PPLI, SURV, F/F) source saying it's friendly. The onboard friendly identification isn't indicated on the HUD (well, the square means it's not hostile, but nothing changes from unknown).

That's how I understand it as well, but I will ask Wags to take a look as well, my understanding makes me think there might not be an issue, but I am happy to be proven wrong if that is the case.

 

The problem is it doesn't work against other hornets under any circumstance.

 

First, they are part of the network and broadcast their information constantly which should in theory eliminate the need for awacs to paint them and say they are friendly. But even if you do have an awacs painting them it still doesn't work from my testing. Hopefully that clarifies it a bit.

Yes, just to clarify, in my mission and in the video the Hornet I am locking both has it's own datalink turned on AND there's an AWACS providing their locations via datalink (which is why the hemisphere is showing for the F-5E, and why I picked it, because it has no datalink of its own).

 

The bug is that the friendly Hornet (or any other datalink donor) does not appear with a hemisphere, even when they themselves are reporting themselves as friendly over datalink AND/OR the AWACS is reporting them as friendly too.

Track file attached.

 

 

In the track I am using VR. At first as explained by the OP, you can see the friendly HAFU prior to the datalink comming online for the F/A-18C.

 

 

Then I show that it is removed once the F/A-18C starts broadcasting.

 

 

Next you can see the Friendly HAFU work for the F5, but not the F18.

 

 

Finally I show that using the JHMCS, the friendly HAFU is never indicated, only once the contact is shown on the HUD.

hafu bug-vr-hmd.trk

I'm not sure we are on the same page here.

 

When a hornet locks a friendly hornet, it doesn't get the half circle on the HUD. Ever. Under any circumstances. Is that fixed internally?

I'm saying it shouldn't, the half-circle is a combination of your hornet and a friendly hornet marking the same target as friendly, your description only describes two aircraft. Yours and the target.

 

Sorry, I was unclear. It doesn't work even with an awacs marking the friendly hornet as friendly.

The half-circle requires the player and a donor with either LINK-16 or SURV donor marking the target as friendly.

 

You won't get it from an F-5 marking a Hornet friendly for example. Its been confirmed to work correctly internally.

 

Okay think we're all getting confused by the F5 - the F5 was only there to show that the hemisphere shows correctly for non-donors. It's not being used to 'mark a Hornet friendly' at all - the AWACs is doing that for both aircraft!

 

Try this:

Add a player Hornet to a mission

Add an AWACs nearby

Add a friendly Hornet 25nm in front of your player Hornet

Lock the Hornet and watch

Expect: The hemisphere to appear and to stay visible

Observe: The hemisphere appears before the Hornet starts donating on Link-16, and disappears when it starts

Shouldn't it show anyways for a PPLI?

 

Say Hornet A sees Hornet B on radar.

Hornet B broadcasts over the PPLI system on datalink to Hornet A that himself, Hornet B, is a friendly. This covers the offboard identification bit - Hornet B identifies Hornet B as friendly via PPLI, and so Hornet A sees Hornet B as offboard friendly.

 

The Hornet marks a trackfile as onboard friendly in one of 3 ways:

- Manual PLID

- Friendly IFF interrogation

- Has it on PPLI

 

Hornet A sees Hornet B on PPLI. Thus, Hornet A identifies Hornet B as onboard friendly. Hornet B is also offboard friendly because of PPLI. THUS:

 

The HUD should show a square with a friendly HAFU above, because Hornet B is both onboard and offboard friendly to Hornet A.

Sorry, I was unclear. It doesn't work even with an awacs marking the friendly hornet as friendly.

 

Which is exactly what I showed in that track I uploaded? There is an AWACS in the mission.

 

I can't see how it's seen as working correctly at all?

 

Also is the friendly HAFU not supposed to work for the JHMCS as well?

It's also not showing even when a donor is saying the Hornet is friendly. So seems like there's two things here - a bug (Hornet designated friendly by an AWACS on datalink doesn't have the hemisphere) and a question (should a Hornet show the hemisphere if it's just you and him, both with datalink on?).