Amraams in the recent updates

I approach with the bandit on the radar's gimbal limit. Usually with at least 10k feet altitude advantage, at 400+ knots IAS. I turn in and fire an AIM120 from maximum 10-15 miles - the bandit is hot - almost in the sure-kill range. Then I crank.

 

As long as the Russian touches the stick and changes path my missiles do not hit. Of course when they evade my AMRAAMs they are already within range for an IR shot that seldom fails...

10-15 miles is not sure kill range. If you're at 30k+ feet you may shoot at 15 miles but below that, especially below 10k feet you wanna be shooting at <8 miles. And even that is easily defeated by someone that knows what he's doing...

I'm not saying that's realistic, however it's still very much possible to dominate a flanker if you do it right. For the IR shots, either you see them coming or if not you presume that there is one. Once below 10 miles you can expect an ET shot depending on your engine state.

10-15 miles is not sure kill range. If you're at 30k+ feet you may shoot at 15 miles but below that, especially below 10k feet you wanna be shooting at <8 miles. And even that is easily defeated by someone that knows what he's doing...

I'm not saying that's realistic, however it's still very much possible to dominate a flanker if you do it right. For the IR shots, either you see them coming or if not you presume that there is one. Once below 10 miles you can expect an ET shot depending on your engine state.

So AMRAAMs are less effective than Russian IR shots? Why don't I just put 8 Sidewinders on the F-15, then? I very much doubt the AMRAAM would be so widespread if what we have in game was realistic.

You said it's still possible to dominate a Flanker - I would appreciate some hints and tips please. I do have tacview, but it doesn't help. I can see my missile approach him, then he turns and my missile goes stupid. Not very informative.

So I tried to use all the info I got around here, but it seems to me AMRAAMs are still about as accurate as Sparrows...

 

I approach with the bandit on the radar's gimbal limit. Usually with at least 10k feet altitude advantage, at 400+ knots IAS. I turn in and fire an AIM120 from maximum 10-15 miles - the bandit is hot - almost in the sure-kill range. Then I crank.

 

As long as the Russian touches the stick and changes path my missiles do not hit. Of course when they evade my AMRAAMs they are already within range for an IR shot that seldom fails...

 

I moved here from you-know-which-sim because of the mind-blowing overperformance of Russian planes, and underperformance of the Germans. I just couldn't put up with that propaganda bull... anymore. This made me a little paranoid, and I can only hope there are still a bucketload of things I'm missing or doing wrong here. DCS is known for its high fidelity of FMs, I sure hope it is also true for missiles.

If you are worried about percieved "russian bias" take the Su-27 out for a spin and experience the glorious soviet design of R-27ER.

So AMRAAMs are less effective than Russian IR shots? Why don't I just put 8 Sidewinders on the F-15, then? I very much doubt the AMRAAM would be so widespread if what we have in game was realistic.

 

You said it's still possible to dominate a Flanker - I would appreciate some hints and tips please. I do have tacview, but it doesn't help. I can see my missile approach him, then he turns and my missile goes stupid. Not very informative.

AMRAAMS are by no means less effective than ETs, if you think they are you are doing it wrong. I'm guessing you are shooting from too long range and your AMRAAM probably has about 300 knots to play with in end-game. If you shoot at say 7 miles however, it will be coming in at Mach 2+ leaving your opponent no time to react.

AMRAAMS are by no means less effective than ETs, if you think they are you are doing it wrong. I'm guessing you are shooting from too long range and your AMRAAM probably has about 300 knots to play with in end-game. If you shoot at say 7 miles however, it will be coming in at Mach 2+ leaving your opponent no time to react.

OK, but it's next to impossible to get that close without being fired upon with an IR or something nasty. It's called beyond visual range for a reason.

I'm not saying there is a Russian bias here, I'm saying missiles seem very ineffective in DCS. I have no experience in the SU27, so I believe you when you say it suffers from the same.

So I tried to use all the info I got around here, but it seems to me AMRAAMs are still about as accurate as Sparrows...

 

I approach with the bandit on the radar's gimbal limit. Usually with at least 10k feet altitude advantage, at 400+ knots IAS. I turn in and fire an AIM120 from maximum 10-15 miles - the bandit is hot - almost in the sure-kill range. Then I crank.

 

As long as the Russian touches the stick and changes path my missiles do not hit. Of course when they evade my AMRAAMs they are already within range for an IR shot that seldom fails...

 

I moved here from you-know-which-sim because of the mind-blowing overperformance of Russian planes, and underperformance of the Germans. I just couldn't put up with that propaganda bull... anymore. This made me a little paranoid, and I can only hope there are still a bucketload of things I'm missing or doing wrong here. DCS is known for its high fidelity of FMs, I sure hope it is also true for missiles.

The amraam is by far the hardest to spoof missile in the entire game. IR's from either side doesn't even come close. And let's not talk about SARH's, as long as someone on the planet deploys a chaff they will go ballistic.

AIM-9M has exact same locking range as R-27ET so you can use it to get a sense of how far away the ET can be fired. Make note of how the afterburner affects lock range. You will see that lock range on MIL power target is equal or less than the effective range of AMRAAM. If you get a heat seeker fired at you, it can be easily spoofed by turning towards it and putting out your afterburner and then dropping flares. This will work always as long as the missile is still at least 1 NM away.

Basic technique against Flankers is to drop out of afterburner just before you get within lock range of heat seekers.

10-15 miles is not sure kill range. If you're at 30k+ feet you may shoot at 15 miles but below that, especially below 10k feet you wanna be shooting at <8 miles. And even that is easily defeated by someone that knows what he's doing...

I'm not saying that's realistic, however it's still very much possible to dominate a flanker if you do it right. For the IR shots, either you see them coming or if not you presume that there is one. Once below 10 miles you can expect an ET shot depending on your engine state.

+1

Lol. If you think using amraams is frustrating (by far and away the most effective missile in the game) you would probably set yourself on fire if you tried to use an ER/ET effectively 'at range'.

You need to readjust your expectations.

Pretty much, the russian equivelant to the AIM-120 is the R-77 I suppose, which is not very effective at all. The R-3R is quite a missile though, shame the Mig-21 isn't quite working right now.

I haven't quite gotten my head wrapped around the performance of the 530D though.

OK, but it's next to impossible to get that close without being fired upon with an IR or something nasty. It's called beyond visual range for a reason.

 

I'm not saying there is a Russian bias here, I'm saying missiles seem very ineffective in DCS. I have no experience in the SU27, so I believe you when you say it suffers from the same.

Well, first off are you being downed because of an r27et or an r73?

If the issue is with the 27et then you need to work on S/A and or throttle/cm control.

Well, first off are you being downed because of an r27et or an r73?

 

If the issue is with the 27et then you need to work on S/A and or throttle/cm control.

:thumbup:

Yep, gotta get your head out of the pit and start lookin' around!

Also, it takes a long time to get out of stage 5 burner, your RPM will retard to 96 or even below that, but you'll still have stage 1/2 burners on for a few seconds...Defending an ET is better done through energy and maneuvering...Actually, defending Archers goes the same way if you don't want to/cannot flare, but the miss distance is basically 10ft, so any lag/desync/warping will kill you, probably...

Oh, quick edit, I didn't read the whole thread, just skimmed through the last two pages... :(

You said it's still possible to dominate a Flanker - I would appreciate some hints and tips please. I do have tacview, but it doesn't help. I can see my missile approach him, then he turns and my missile goes stupid. Not very informative.

Surely him turning away from you is an indication of dominating. Now learn how to take advantage of this.

Press him, don't let him get his nose on you or better still bate him into a false sense of security so he does turn back, into your next shot. If you get killed doing this then evaluate it on tacview and figure out what you could have done better, eg. you chased him into a valley and lost lock/track, maybe you could have been higher to keep the lock, if you chase him flying low yourself into the valley maybe your instinct and awarness is not up to scratch, another learning curve. Remember the bandit is using all his sensors radar, rwr etc. to figure out where you are and how he is going to get the better of you even when you're chasing him.

Yes, it is called BVR for a reason but that doesn't just consist of getting in range, pressing fire and letting the missile do all the work while you sip tea, it wouldn't take much ability if that was the case. Bandits have exactly the same ambitions as you so don't expect them to fly into your missiles for you. Tacview can show you how bandits react to your launches. To maximise your missiles chances you need to adapt tricks, facing up 1v1 the human bandit knows what you're trying to do, this is his bread and butter, so you need to adapt and break that cycle, if you use TWS the bandit reaction time can be slower you can draw them in and fake awarness to increase the surprise, use altitude to rain more energy on them, high altitude when flown effectively can also can keep you out of sight of many low flyers, you can buddy up to draw traps which can catch fixated bandits, but the key element is experience and learning, like I said BVR is not just about pressing fire when in range it takes a great deal of deaths to get comfortable with just one of the many styles of fighting and maximise your missiles effectivness in such situations.

Well, first off are you being downed because of an r27et or an r73?

 

If the issue is with the 27et then you need to work on S/A and or throttle/cm control.

It's odd that nobody ever mentions the R-27 series's enormous smoke trail as a disadvantage in combat. A R-27 is certainly far more conspicuous than a AIM-9M or AIM-120 at close range...

Well... That IS like the real one

They sure are! But it really does not matter in DCS where it is impossible to get a R-27 off the rail in the first place if your enemy is not locked up/RWR ALARM. I like to see my R-27's as a tool to deny the eagle to build up energy but I never fire it as the "killing missile" it is simply a tool to make sure the enemy is focused at me + going defensive giving me or a future wingman some more time/space to get closer while he is busy avoiding the smoke trail.

I can't say for sure if the missiles and sensors ever gets realistic but I don't think I will change tactic.. DCS 1.5.3: R-27's = Stupid ALARM missile. and nothing else.

It's odd that nobody ever mentions the R-27 series's enormous smoke trail as a disadvantage in combat. A R-27 is certainly far more conspicuous than a AIM-9M or AIM-120 at close range...

It's odd that nobody ever mentions the R-27 series's enormous smoke trail as a disadvantage in combat. A R-27 is certainly far more conspicuous than a AIM-9M or AIM-120 at close range...

They sure are! But it really does not matter in DCS where it is impossible to get a R-27 off the rail in the first place if your enemy is not locked up/RWR ALARM. I like to see my R-27's as a tool to deny the eagle to build up energy but I never fire it as the "killing missile" it is simply a tool to make sure the enemy is focused at me + going defensive giving me or a future wingman some more time/space to get closer while he is busy avoiding the smoke trail.

I can't say for sure if the missiles and sensors ever gets realistic but I don't think I will change tactic.. DCS 1.5.3: R-27's = Stupid ALARM missile. and nothing else.

Good strategy if an eagle doesn't have energy built all ready. Don't think it will work if energy is already built up.

They sure are! But it really does not matter in DCS where it is impossible to get a R-27 off the rail in the first place if your enemy is not locked up/RWR ALARM.

ETs would benefit quite a bit if they weren't so conspicuous for several seconds after launch. I believe it is realistic though.

Well (sry for language barriers) that was my point - Fire the missile would force the eagle driver to do some kind of manuover as he/her see fit in order to confuse my missile. - As we all know you have a bank-account with energy and doing something is a trade for something else in terms of energy.. I did not mean to drain him completely from energy so it would have no energy left to fight. the eagle can create a lot of speed very fast and is definitely one of the features I hate/fear most when in a 1vs1 :) And thank you.

Good strategy if an eagle doesn't have energy built all ready. Don't think it will work if energy is already built up.

I have no idea what is realistic or not. I trust in ED to make sure we have the best immersion possible so the fun and challenge is on a high level. But in my personal opinion having working weapons and cm/ecm is a very, very important feature to this combat sim.

Finally I want to ad that I see my self as a semi noob still. I have only been active with the flanker for 14months or so and I can spot many things that I can do better. next project is teamwork. making any module 500% more combat effective when in a group(as I am sure the designers also had in mind)

C you out there on my six ;)

ETs would benefit quite a bit if they weren't so conspicuous for several seconds after launch. I believe it is realistic though.