Rotary wing collective training scars with AV-8B throttle. - ED Forums
 


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Old 07-12-2018, 12:42 PM   #1
DaveRindner
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Default Rotary wing collective training scars with AV-8B throttle.

Has anyone experienced , muscle memory training scar, when VTOL landing AV-8B. my muscle memory, with helicopters, is that as soon as touchdown, collective FWD. Which in AV-8B, causes throttle up, and an otherwise good landing is spoiled or worse. I find that I really have to concentrate on throttle when vertically landing AV-8B, and fight the instinct. Only happens when landing Harrier vertically. In military, we called this a training scar. Practiced action from one task, interfering with practiced action of another unrelated task, when both use same limbs. If I am not paying attention, my subconscious, thinks, vertically landing Harrier is a helicopter, while my conscious mind knows its a fixed wing.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveRindner View Post
Has anyone experienced , muscle memory training scar, when VTOL landing AV-8B. my muscle memory, with helicopters, is that as soon as touchdown, collective FWD. Which in AV-8B, causes throttle up, and an otherwise good landing is spoiled or worse. I find that I really have to concentrate on throttle when vertically landing AV-8B, and fight the instinct. Only happens when landing Harrier vertically. In military, we called this a training scar. Practiced action from one task, interfering with practiced action of another unrelated task, when both use same limbs. If I am not paying attention, my subconscious, thinks, vertically landing Harrier is a helicopter, while my conscious mind knows its a fixed wing.
Really awesome module!
Training scar? Interesting term. Never heard it before.

I don't reverse the collective direction so that particular issue didn't get me. But I did have to remember to not touch the pedals as you come out of transitional lift.

On an unrelated note, I haven't noticed much ground effect when hovering the Harrier. Has it been modelled yet?

I expected a bump as I slide right on to the deck of the Tarawa if I don't have much clearance.



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Old 07-12-2018, 02:55 PM   #3
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Same here. The desire to "pull pitch" to gain altitude has caused me to ruin quite a few perfectly good Harriers.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:18 PM   #4
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Lol'd...

@DaveRindner that is exactly what I did and ruined a number of what might have been good landings.

Actually still happens if I'm not fully focused on what I'm doing. The tendency seems to be going away slowly but I dare not touch a helicopter now.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:11 PM   #5
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Yep, me too !
But it isn't going very far, usually this is when I land on ship, during the hovering phase, sometime I'm confused and I throttle forward expecting to go down or the oppsoite
But since I'm gentle on the throttle I have the time to correct.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:46 AM   #6
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It is a term most often used when training with small arms. Some bad habits can result in trainining scars. Most often, finger on the trigger, when carrying a firearm. My training NCO, fixed this by crushing our trigger finger into the side of mag well or onto safety (M16/M4). Pain seemed to work.
With respect to to DCS. When using throttle of my X56 in collective mode, the throttle direction is reversed. After 10 years of DCS and KA-50, I have to fight muscle memory of vertically landing a helicopter vs. vertically landing a Harrier.
VT/O is not a problem, nor is conventional or short T/O. Conventional or short Landing is not a problem. Only vertical landing. The ground effect and H20 injection are nicely modeled. Once you bring in AV8 into pre-land stable hover, you have to follow with nice smooth slow, reduction in throttle, until touchdown. How smooth and slow depends on gross weight. I really have to concentrate and resist my arm's desire to push throttle up on touch down. Giggitey!
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:16 AM   #7
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Good idea! Get really good with flying and landing AV-8B, without interruption of rotary flight. THen re-introduce rotary into back your reputare. To keep the skills. I have to go back to practice Mig-21bis landings. Becouse landing Mig-21 is not 'difficult' or tricky, it just requires certain actions at certain time, with pre-conditions, that require practice. If I land Mig-21bis as I land F-5E, with same speeds, same flare, I will most likely bend the gear. If I land F-5E same as I land A-10C, the touchdown will go well, but I tend to loose control on on the landing roll. So each type has quirks. AV-8B is touchy on taxi speeds. Normal taxi speed where I can turn F-5E, A-10C, or any tricycle, will flip AV-8B on its side.

I have a standard for myself, not yet achieved. Combat aside. I should be able to , with no notice, on a whim, get into any of my high fidelity modules (gigitey), and fly it safely, and land in any weather, with any load (gigitey X2) safe for the type. That includes memory only cold starts. In RW, this is a bad idea and is not allowed.
KA-50, A-10C, Mig-21bis, UH-1H, M2KC, AV-8B, F-5E. I don't care for WWII types. SU-25T and FC3 are extra credit, until they become high fidelity.
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