So how does one beat the AI in the quick mission with 51? - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 08-15-2017, 01:51 PM   #11
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you are absolutely right mmj! my mistake. i totally got them mixed up

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Old 08-15-2017, 03:23 PM   #12
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I tought it was me. lol, tried once to kill them, no chance.
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:55 PM   #13
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AI on average is superhuman, AI on anything above that is a total UFO. I never set them stronger than average when I make missions.

Even on average they accelerate from impossible situations, and decelerate in dives as if they hit a brick wall. Sometimes they lag sideways the moment you pull the trigger. Probably the worst, most frustrating AI in the history of sims, including the forever rolling AI of the old IL2.

The new DM and their ability to black out will help a bit though.
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Old 08-15-2017, 04:51 PM   #14
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A lot of these complaints are the same complaints seen on the multiplayer side of fighting the 109.
Yes new DM and blackout will help a lot, but one must come to terms with the fact that the 109 in sim is more upgraded than the 51 we have.

As with a multiplayer fight, if the enemy gets a jump on you or you start out at equal footing, it is very hard to turn the tables as it should be.

Keep practicing, you'll get there. Learn how to put your mustangs turn performance to it's max, and with enough practice, when he goes vertical you will eventually learn to identify whether you can follow him long enough to get some shots off or not. Also keep that speed up as long as possible!
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:26 PM   #15
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yes it is a ufo. but that's it's only attribute unfortunately. if it wouldn't be ufo, it would be too easy to defeat.
the ai simply cant be creative enough to match human opponent in such a diverse enviroment what dogfight really is. not with the computing power that's left to our pc's from the other physics modelling. and you, in time would learn the way it fights and the challenge would be gone then. so in a way im happy that it is a ufo.

im afraid this will never chance, the fact that it isnt more human like. as we allways want something else more, eye candy, more detailed damage and weapon model, etc. there will never be enough computing power dedicated to the ai that it would become more human like.

i personally like to fly against it only because it's hard. i know it's not realistic, and i have no illusions that learning to defeat it would make me any better against human pilots. maybe it teaches me thing or two about my own flying, meaning controlling the aircraft, but that's all.

human opponents are, and i believe, will stay forever the best learning tool if you want to learn how to dogfight.

and air combat in general, is much more than just "fancy pilot shit", alltough that's propably the thing that has gotten most of us to combat flight sims in the beginning as it's romantic by it's nature and the thing we like about movies and books. in reality it's more about being smart and avoiding unnecessary risks.

Last edited by voodooman; 08-15-2017 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooman View Post
here are 2 tracks against the mighty 109 AI Exellent.
apologies about the zip file, they were just over 5mb limit for tracks so i had to zip them.

crappy shooting in the -E one, i had so many opportunities to kill him but i think i got the moral victory still as i hit him, got his aileron and some other hits, and he didn't hit me once. prepared to be bored as it takes ages as he runs out of fuel (150liters on both aircraft). but it still shows the tactics that work against the ai, so it might have some educational value..?

it's hard to shoot head on against the sniper ai, but on the other one i got him properly
one must just remember to not be 100% head on to survive against the sniper ai.

you'll see that even against the AI ACE it's possible to hold your own in the P-51. just remember, turn radius wins in 2 circle fight, and start your turns when he's slowest in his turn/climb. dont try to engage with every pass, wait for the golden opportunity

it's not easy i tell you, but it's the only thing i do offline in dcs, and im pretty seasoned against the 109 AI Exellent.
I will look at this as I have yet to beat the dam 109's...
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Old 08-17-2017, 03:45 PM   #17
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Buy the 109.
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Old 08-17-2017, 06:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mporlier View Post
I will look at this as I have yet to beat the dam 109's...
there is at least dozen occasions in both tracks where human pilot would have gotten me. the ai doesn't recognise often that all it has to do is continue turning, or just slow down instead of starting a climb. this is the lack of creativity that i mean when i said it's only attribute is unnatural ability to turn and climb.

when the ai goes for climb, i extend, and try to look when it's slowest in it's turn/climb and start a hard turn, to force it to maneuver when slow and taking away little bit of it's acceleration advantage. i aim for the belly side to get our circles off plane of each other ("olympic rings") in case it doens't climb and just turns. that sometimes gives me a shot from my off plane circle, but usually it makes it climb. and when i notice that it starts to climb low in energy, and my position is optimal for attack, i use all the energy that i have to get a shot.

if you look at the tracks with 109's external view and F5 (closest aircraft padlock) you see what i do and why it works.

i dont consider this a dogfight practice as it wouldn't work against human pilot, merely as a videogame where i fly a plane, enjoying the challenge that the ufo ai ace gives me. for me it's fun

Last edited by voodooman; 08-17-2017 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:12 PM   #19
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I was kidding of course. I won't fly anything but American planes. However, it is a struggle to win in the P-51. Against the AI anyway. I haven't found an answer other than always keep my speed up.

I want the P-47 and just do A/G with it. I'll keep the P-51 for some escorts and sight seeing. It no dogfighter in the DCS world.
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