DCS F/A-18C | Air to Air Refuelling Tutorial [Early Access] - Page 4 - ED Forums
 


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Old 05-16-2018, 12:28 AM   #31
neofightr
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Originally Posted by =Buckeye= View Post
FWIW, I know that "Jello" (retired Legacy Hornet USN pilot who runs The Fighter Pilot Podcast) said that he always had a personal preference to refuel with full flaps. IIRC he said it was split between guys he flew with; some preferred Auto, some preferred Full. Full would obviously help a bit with the slow speed stability as well, although it doesn't sound like it is needed
Interesting, I flew with jello back in the day when we were JOs. I hate facebook but I did glance at the content he is offering. This should be a goto reference site for anyone wanting to learn the finer details of flying the hornet in the navy. From what I remember he wasn't a gamer and probably still isn't so I doubt he has checked out DCS (I could be wrong).

Regarding refueling, one of the things that I have yet to see any sim get right is the dynamics between the aircraft along with the massive physics involved with airflow.

Not only do you have to deal with a more sluggish aircraft when you slow below 250kts but there is a dynamic variability between the aircraft that is a result of pilot stick/throttle input, airflow and inertia of all aircraft involved.

Even if a plane is on autopilot (like the tanker is) it will always be constantly moving in 3d space as a result of various changes in air pressure causing the autopilot to slightly raise and lower the aircraft to maintain an altitude number.

Up/down side to side and fwd/backyards is constantly happen even in the smoothest of air. This is what makes real-life refueling stressful and formation flying challenging.

Alas pc flight sims never seem to model this dynamic right, the AI planes always seem to be locked into 3d space. I have flown formation with AI in most of the recent flight sims and none of them model this variability. Real shame.

Just watch a few real-life formation videos and you will see what I am talking about.

One more note on the dcs hornet refueling video out there, the visual checkpoints of using the hud are not possible once in close to the tanker. Your head is no longer looking straight on and the hud is not in your field of view when looking at the probe/basket.

For the hornet, your best technique (as mentioned in the video) is to look through the basket and plane and reference the horizon so to keep you stable and not chase the basket with the probe. I have seen way too many close calls by pilots who wouldn't do this and chase the basket. It was never pretty when they did that.

And no, air to air refueling is never smooth like the video is showing for the reasons I stated above.
Here is the proof, watch midway through the video for a near mid-air collision between two heavies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiN9M0ahfmM

Last edited by neofightr; 05-16-2018 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:06 AM   #32
Weta43
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neofightr - Just out of curiosity, after reading your comments above about the aircraft constantly moving relative to the air mass and each other - have you ever tried cranking the turbulence setting in the ME as high as it will go & taking fuel with that on ?

I'm not sure what happens with the turbulence at altitude, but I've tried it with landing on the carriers, and it makes that a more demanding experience...

Does it seem more, or less realistic to you ?
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:59 AM   #33
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neofightr - Just out of curiosity, after reading your comments above about the aircraft constantly moving relative to the air mass and each other - have you ever tried cranking the turbulence setting in the ME as high as it will go & taking fuel with that on ?

I'm not sure what happens with the turbulence at altitude, but I've tried it with landing on the carriers, and it makes that a more demanding experience...

Does it seem more, or less realistic to you ?
You are reading my mind. I haven't bothered doing the refueling setup yet because I want to save my DCS first impression for the f18 module.

My plan is to do refueling with default values then crank turbulence up to see if the AI planes are affected. My gut feeling is that they won't be. I will be posting my first impressions of the module on the forums once I get a couple of hours in.

One thing I did notice on some of the f18 streamer videos is that the devs do add a little extra turbulence as you near touchdown on the carrier. It doesn't look like much but it's better than nothing.
I plan to save my experience at the carrier with the f18 module as well.

Last edited by neofightr; 05-16-2018 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:25 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by neofightr View Post
Interesting, I flew with jello back in the day when we were JOs. I hate facebook but I did glance at the content he is offering. This should be a goto reference site for anyone wanting to learn the finer details of flying the hornet in the navy. From what I remember he wasn't a gamer and probably still isn't so I doubt he has checked out DCS (I could be wrong).

Regarding refueling, one of the things that I have yet to see any sim get right is the dynamics between the aircraft along with the massive physics involved with airflow.

Not only do you have to deal with a more sluggish aircraft when you slow below 250kts but there is a dynamic variability between the aircraft that is a result of pilot stick/throttle input, airflow and inertia of all aircraft involved.

Even if a plane is on autopilot (like the tanker is) it will always be constantly moving in 3d space as a result of various changes in air pressure causing the autopilot to slightly raise and lower the aircraft to maintain an altitude number.

Up/down side to side and fwd/backyards is constantly happen even in the smoothest of air. This is what makes real-life refueling stressful and formation flying challenging.

Alas pc flight sims never seem to model this dynamic right, the AI planes always seem to be locked into 3d space. I have flown formation with AI in most of the recent flight sims and none of them model this variability. Real shame.

Just watch a few real-life formation videos and you will see what I am talking about.

One more note on the dcs hornet refueling video out there, the visual checkpoints of using the hud are not possible once in close to the tanker. Your head is no longer looking straight on and the hud is not in your field of view when looking at the probe/basket.

For the hornet, your best technique (as mentioned in the video) is to look through the basket and plane and reference the horizon so to keep you stable and not chase the basket with the probe. I have seen way too many close calls by pilots who wouldn't do this and chase the basket. It was never pretty when they did that.

And no, air to air refueling is never smooth like the video is showing for the reasons I stated above.
Here is the proof, watch midway through the video for a near mid-air collision between two heavies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiN9M0ahfmM
That's great colour. Thank you.

Out of interest, did the military grade simulators you trained on replicated this turbulence?
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:35 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jack McCoy View Post
I'm dying to refuel a Canadian CF-188, proudly showing off the 425th livery. Then I can die a happy, fulfilled virtual aviator.
I can't wait to refuel with the 409th Livery
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:49 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by donkeyrider View Post
That's great colour. Thank you.

Out of interest, did the military grade simulators you trained on replicated this turbulence?
Back in my day (late 90s), the software talent and cpu power wasn't up to speed to even try so practicing carrier landings was very basic and there was no air refueling feature.
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Old 05-17-2018, 03:51 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by neofightr View Post
Back in my day (late 90s), the software talent and cpu power wasn't up to speed to even try so practicing carrier landings was very basic and there was no air refueling feature.
Thank you. Amazing how far technology has come over the last 20 years.
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