AAA/SAM Mod

Regards

I am the creator of the MOD RHBA, and also to dedicate myself to making aircraft mods, I'm interested in adding anti-aircraft AAAs and SAMs units of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. I would like to know if there is a process by which can add new units to the Scripps CF, either with models created in 3DStudio or simply copying graphic ofexisting models.

I try to add AAA units by 14.5mm ZPU-4, 57mm S-60 or 85mm KS-12 guns. In the future I

SAMs will focus on fixed and mobile units such as the Sa-2 Guideline, Sa-3 Goa, Sa-4 Ganef or S-200/Sa-5 Gadfly units.

I am investigating now that files can be modified to add the ZPU-4 to FC2

I definitely would love to see older AAAs and SAMs ;)

I don't know if and how it can be done, though

Lock on definitely needs FLAK guns :D

Hope it is possible to create new units.

Lock on definitely needs FLAK guns :D

I've seen flak from ships in DCS:BS, so it should be possible ;)

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=39085

have a look!

Flak is not much used these days. It is ok for point defence of fixed targets but is hopeless against the stand-off capabilities of modern weaponry. The speed of modern attack aircraft renders optical tracking ineffective and radar tracking is relatively expensive for limited capabilties. That's why everyone has switched to SAM based defenses except for very short range radar-guided AAA defence against low flying aircraft.

Flak would look pretty, so I don't want to discourage you. It's just not really a big part of a 'modern era' simulation. Perhaps you could put your obvious talent to use creating some other objects.There is a whole heap that could be done - the Spanish Airforce or Navy, or older Warsaw Pact or Western aircraft that would be activated in the event of a big conflict? For example, some people would love to see a decent F-4 Phantom in the game (not me, I'll stick to Hornets thanks :) ).

Flak in old sense, like in WW2, is useless. But if you can make that work in FC2, then you can have realistic AAA, cos 20-60 mm (most common mid calibers) use proximity fuses and detonating by timer. So far, I have not seen any effect in FC2 that will resemble proximity detonation. Unless I missed something (again, hehehe).

It would be preettttty cool to have Bofors and Oerlikon cannons with flak effect :)

Flak is not much used these days. It is ok for point defence of fixed targets but is hopeless against the stand-off capabilities of modern weaponry. The speed of modern attack aircraft renders optical tracking ineffective and radar tracking is relatively expensive for limited capabilties. That's why everyone has switched to SAM based defenses except for very short range radar-guided AAA defence against low flying aircraft.

 

Flak would look pretty, so I don't want to discourage you. It's just not really a big part of a 'modern era' simulation. Perhaps you could put your obvious talent to use creating some other objects.There is a whole heap that could be done - the Spanish Airforce or Navy, or older Warsaw Pact or Western aircraft that would be activated in the event of a big conflict? For example, some people would love to see a decent F-4 Phantom in the game (not me, I'll stick to Hornets thanks :) ).

I beg to differ. Have you seen the KS-19 and KS-12 Flak in Falcon4 allied force? It's deadly.

I beg to differ. Have you seen the KS-19 and KS-12 Flak in Falcon4 allied force? It's deadly.

I doubt that KS-19, with its 15 round/min rate of fire, could be of use against modern jets!

According to AAA personnel, even the more modern, Rheinmentall 202 20mm AA Gun can't engage effectively modern jets like F-16 or Mirage-2000. It is used for mass-fire protection, creating an intimidating "umbrella", rather than indivitually defeating enemy aircraft. This could be used and simulated in FC2.0. These guns can engage and defeat older aircraft that may be still in service like the F-4, Sea Harrier or Mirage F1.

Bofors, that were mentioned above by Renato, are so obsolete that Greek army uses it, in conjustion with time-fuzed ammo, as anti-personnel guns protecting coasts from landing infantry...

I doubt that KS-19, with its 15 round/min rate of fire, could be of use against modern jets!

 

According to AAA personnel, even the more modern, Rheinmentall 202 20mm AA Gun can't engage effectively modern jets like F-16 or Mirage-2000. It is used for mass-fire protection, creating an intimidating "umbrella", rather than indivitually defeating enemy aircraft. This could be used and simulated in FC2.0. These guns can engage and defeat older aircraft that may be still in service like the F-4, Sea Harrier or Mirage F1.

 

Bofors, that were mentioned above by Renato, are so obsolete that Greek army uses it, in conjustion with time-fuzed ammo, as anti-personnel guns protecting coasts from landing infantry...

Try flying straight through that umbrella, and do it a few times. Then come back later and

tell how many times you got hit. After you get hit ask yourself if you still think FLAK is

completely useless :). It it quite intimidating once you have been hit by it a few times, even if

you do come out alive more often than not - the goal is always to always survive.

Flak is intendended to create a ring of fire protecting the target, will be useful to have it on FC2.0 Very useful from my point of view.

Try flying straight through that umbrella, and do it a few times. Then come back later and

tell how many times you got hit. After you get hit ask yourself if you still think FLAK is

completely useless :). It it quite intimidating once you have been hit by it a few times, even if

you do come out alive more often than not - the goal is always to always survive.

I may have said it wrong but you CAN fly through the defensive "umbrella" created by AAA, such as the Rheinmental 202 MK20. The umbrella is just intimidating cause of the great volume of fire. This doesn't mean that flying through will necesserily get you killed or hit but are you willing to risk it? Most won't! Its main role isn't to shoot down a modern jet, although a kill would be welcome tacticians doesn't expect that great results. They primarily focus on putting great stress to the enemy pilot and disrupt him. The AA gunner's orders are so... often they will just fire to the approximate path or over a target area rather than immediatly infront of the aircraft. Every pilot under so intsense fire wouldn't be so focused when delivering its ordinance and that is often enough to save the target.

The flak's rate of fire is so low that it's hard to create the volume of fire or any intimidating effect.

In LO world for bombers it would be deadly. Imagine uber slow A-10 flying 350-400 km\h.......

Imagine uber slow A-10 flying 350-400 km\h.......

and imagine how much slower your PC would go with all those flak clouds being rendered :D

In LO world for bombers it would be deadly. Imagine uber slow A-10 flying 350-400 km\h.......

Yeah, a Rheinmentall MK20 is enough to shoot down an A-10 or Su-25 since its capable to engage aircrafts like the F-4. The only problem is that I don't know if the AI is capable of such coordinated actions needed to create an "umbrella".

Still I doubt that a flak gun can be of much use against these aircraft. If flaks are useful, why flaks aren't still used as AA?

and imagine how much slower your PC would go with all those flak clouds being rendered :D

It is only explosion in air :P In Falcon it works quite well. We don't need uber highly detailed flak explosion. Simple explosons of missiles in air would be good - they're not too complicated. Also we don't say there will be thousands of FLAKs in one time - up 50-100 explosions in the area would be OK imho :)

Yeah, a Rheinmentall MK20 is enough to shoot down an A-10 or Su-25 since its capable to engage aircrafts like the F-4. The only problem is that I don't know if the AI is capable of such coordinated actions needed to create an "umbrella".

 

Still I doubt that a flak gun can be of much use against these aircraft. If flaks are useful, why flaks aren't still used as AA?

For a bombers it would be really more dangerous and exciting missions. In Falcon flying around KS-19s and other ones is really hooooot even as for F-16 :)

Don't know about AI, however would be nice if player had possibility to set simply umbrella trigger. AI should only execture this trigger if condition is filled. I don't see much coding here.

It is only explosion in air :P In Falcon it works quite well. We don't need uber highly detailed flak explosion. Simple explosons of missiles in air would be good - they're not too complicated. Also we don't say there will be thousands of FLAKs in one time - up 50-100 explosions in the area would be OK imho :)

reason why i said this to is because i think of your current PC bob, i think if anything too complex went on with your computer it may melt :P

Hey, don't get me wrong, i'm not against flak at all, if it can be implemented with land based systems (as i mentioned before, it's already there for ships) then go for it :D

edit: i'm managed to dig up a screenshot of the Kuznetsov firing a barrage of flak, you can see the effects, and the FPS slowdowns can get pretty hairy.

You guys should check this. This is about simulating FLAK with triggers.;)

reason why i said this to is because i think of your current PC bob, i think if anything too complex went on with your computer it may melt :P

 

Hey, don't get me wrong, i'm not against flak at all, if it can be implemented with land based systems (as i mentioned before, it's already there for ships) then go for it :D

 

edit: i'm managed to dig up a screenshot of the Kuznetsov firing a barrage of flak, you can see the effects, and the FPS slowdowns can get pretty hairy.

 

hehhe I can't whine against game. Simply who else uses PC from 2005 at all? My PC probably would be too weak (even now it hardly runs FC 2 on uber low settings....) however I know most people have "normal" PC which should be able to run FLAKs it without any problem at all ;]

OMG I am a bit suprised Ka-50 took off with 4 big moms Kh-29T oO

I may have said it wrong but you CAN fly through the defensive "umbrella" created by AAA, such as the Rheinmental 202 MK20. The umbrella is just intimidating cause of the great volume of fire. This doesn't mean that flying through will necesserily get you killed or hit but are you willing to risk it? Most won't! Its main role isn't to shoot down a modern jet, although a kill would be welcome tacticians doesn't expect that great results. They primarily focus on putting great stress to the enemy pilot and disrupt him. The AA gunner's orders are so... often they will just fire to the approximate path or over a target area rather than immediatly infront of the aircraft. Every pilot under so intsense fire wouldn't be so focused when delivering its ordinance and that is often enough to save the target.

 

The flak's rate of fire is so low that it's hard to create the volume of fire or any intimidating effect.

I think you really need to try it in falcon to know what its like.

Its not like having 1 or 2 pieces of flak. It's 30-40 KS-19's and about 20-30 KS12's accompanied by SON-9 Firecan radar, and that my friend is an area of airspace you don't want to enter. They fire at 2 different altitude regions and either alternate fire or fire at once depending on situation and tactic....

Try flying through that and tell me flak is not effective :-)

Arguing semantics is all good however knowing what it's like and knowing it are 2 different things.

Peace

I think you really need to try it in falcon to know what its like.

Its not like having 1 or 2 pieces of flak. It's 30-40 KS-19's and about 20-30 KS12's accompanied by SON-9 Firecan radar, and that my friend is an area of airspace you don't want to enter. They fire at 2 different altitude regions and either alternate fire or fire at once depending on situation and tactic....

 

Try flying through that and tell me flak is not effective :-)

Arguing semantics is all good however knowing what it's like and knowing it are 2 different things.

 

Peace

Fusion no need to call "peace"! I was never aggressive or intimidating against you... just the opposing way of thinking. First of all I would like to mention that whats in Falcon isn't necessarily the best thing to implement in FC2.0. What I mentioned before about RH-202 and modern AA defenses is what I 've been told by AA crews of the airforce since 1995, its not my imagination nor my experience from any computer simulator.

Another think that makes me doubtful is that flak guns were retired from most armies in the '80s. Today only a few ex-Warsaw Pact countries utilize such guns.

Apart from this you mention 30-40 KS-19 and 20-30 KS-12... Thats at least 50-70 guns. Aren't these quite many? What will they protect? A city, an airfield? How many guns can be controlled by a single SON-9?

IMHO I would suggest you to use your skills and time to create more modern equipment but still I may be wrong.

More modern means more complex, means less real info, means less accurate...

Nah, I rather have something from the Cold War - crappy, but accurate :)

Bring old flaks and sams, bring good old jets that none cares to hide combat data anymore :D