Vietnam War - POLL

3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Don't worry I am familiar with it, I just I just thought the project number was something assigned by design bureau (such as in my case) and then used as a service designation (though usually alongside a name e.g. project 877 «Па́лтус» or "Halibut" in English..

Yes the project numbers are accompanied by code names, which kind of groups them - e.g. large surface combatants have code names of predatory/sea birds, small combatants(missile ships at least) of stinging "bugs", while submarines have names of predatory fish :) .

 

Interestingly for civilian ships, the accompanying project names are assigned in the "western way" - i.e. the actual name of the first completed ship of the class.

 

 

3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

On this subject I wish ED would overhaul the display names to include both naming conventions (like C:MANO and SF2), that way users familiar with one or the other are accommodated. I did make a thread about it but very little interest - it is a fairly pedantic request, though I would've done it myself as a mod, but the .lua files got hidden.

Yeah me too.

Just wanted to bump this one....   DO IT ED!

 

thud ridge

Undoubtedly a tricky map to execute… 

 

a fair few trees, and given the skill of the Viet Minh, Viet Cong and NVA for hiding stuff, most targets are going to require more effort than “place industrial block A” or “dock complex b” etc

which could see benefit from incremental development. Start off with Hanoi, Thud Ridge and the north end of the Gulf of Tonkin, then extend the map southwards down the Ho Chi Minh trail

1 hour ago, rkk01 said:

a fair few trees

That's certainly one way of saying it...

Uping my good old thread ...

 

With current airframes inbound, it's more than ever a HOT TOPIC.

 

C'mon guy and gals, VOTE, show your WISH for 'Nam ...

 

                                                                                                                                          ... I see a red door and I want to Paint it ...

 

Hueyman

Edited September 16, 2022 by Hueyman

@Hueyman

No need to be worried!!! They have practically confirmed it is coming, just not when. Pretty sure they'll announce Afghanistan first. Announcing Nam might our Christmas present this year.  

 

Here's hoping!!

I think whoever takes on the 'Nam map, would probably be a team with a  lot of experience. I'm thinking of one in particular, maybe they will take it on!

 

Hueyman, those are some impressive visuals!!

 
Here's hoping!!
I think whoever takes on the 'Nam map, would probably be a team with a  lot of experience. I'm thinking of one in particular, maybe they will take it on!
 
Hueyman, those are some impressive visuals!!

Well, I know you've read my posts before, but I'll say it again!
I believe ED will take on Nam. Marianas was just a teaser. IF you're referring to ORBX. Yes, lots of experience in the Nordics, so I'll almost bet that they'll go down south, and do the Baltics as they're next project! Might even go west to Iceland and the UK later.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

 

Yea, I agree that's quite plausible... I have thought that Marianas map was a technology test of sorts, possible for a Korea or Vietnam map, maybe a testbed to see how our rigs handle it too! 

Yes, I  had ORBX in mind, I didn't wanna specify simply because I didn't want others thinking that company "was for sure making VN"... sometimes people aren't careful about specific wording and assume things that aren't there, seeing only what they wanna see!  That said, I love your idea for them to do the Baltics and so on!

Maybe if ED does it in-house, they might

 

14 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

@Hueyman

No need to be worried!!! They have practically confirmed it is coming, just not when. Pretty sure they'll announce Afghanistan first. Announcing Nam might our Christmas present this year.  

Just bare in mind that they changed their anouncement policy, thats why the flood of 3rd parties now, some stuff announced is yeeeears away.

At risk of stating the obvious, I just hope they don't do something stupid like release a 'modern' version of the map! It absolutely has to be conflict relevant (unlike South Atlantic, Kola and Sinai). 

 

16 hours ago, Lace said:

At risk of stating the obvious, I just hope they don't do something stupid like release a 'modern' version of the map! It absolutely has to be conflict relevant (unlike South Atlantic, Kola and Sinai). 

 

Ideally we'll get a multi Era Vietnam map. China vs Vietnam 1980 and 2024 would be as interesting as Tet 1968. 

 

Love me some Prairie Fire.

On 9/17/2022 at 8:41 AM, Lace said:

At risk of stating the obvious, I just hope they don't do something stupid like release a 'modern' version of the map! It absolutely has to be conflict relevant (unlike South Atlantic, Kola and Sinai). 

 

Exactly, "modern day" Vietnam would be just as bad and incomprehensible as modern day Normandy, modern day Kursk or modern day El Alamein - totally wasted opportunity with zero atmosphere.

Let alone it would be incomparably harder on CPU with far, far lower frame rates, population of Vietnam tripled(!) since 1960s, together with big urban areas, infrastructure etc.

Edited September 18, 2022 by bies

I'd be open for a 1980 variant later down the line, for the Vietnam-China war. Post-2000 modern Vietnam would probably be of little use.

8 hours ago, bies said:

Exactly, "modern day" Vietnam would be just as bad and incomprehensible as modern day Normandy, modern day Kursk or modern day El Alamein - totally wasted opportunity with zero atmosphere.

Let alone it would be incomparably harder on CPU with far, far lower frame rates, population of Vietnam tripled(!) since 1960s, together with big urban areas, infrastructure etc.

 

A 1960's map is a must have, looking at the Marianas any Vietnam map is going to be a CPU killer due to the trees. 

8 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I'd be open for a 1980 variant later down the line, for the Vietnam-China war. Post-2000 modern Vietnam would probably be of little use.

I would like to see a modern era Vietnam map, simply on the grounds I think it would be a theater that is relevent for the Chinese Asset pack and the J-11 and possibly the JF-17. ( I can't remember if the PLAF uses the JF). I'd also like to see a 1950s for the F4U and any possible period French aircraft. 

13 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

A 1960's map is a must have, looking at the Marianas any Vietnam map is going to be a CPU killer due to the trees. 

This are not even trees, Kola Peninsula will have far more trees than Vietnam yet developers are confident they can make it maintaining decent performance. Marianas is just overall exceptionally high detail map, similar to Channel map, the obvious tradeoff of extremally detailed map is drop of performance.

Like a bike, parked inside a small home garden behind the house, inside some village, one of many, with every spoke in the wheel visible - you will probably never see it but ED modeled it because they decided they want to sacrifice some performance for extreme details. Obviously maps like Syria, Persian Gulf, South Atlantic, Kola Peninsula, Sinai Peninsula, Northern Australia or possible future Vietnam will not have such extreme details, that's why bigger they still have / will have have a decent performance.

17 minutes ago, bies said:

This are not even trees, Kola Peninsula will have far more trees than Vietnam yet developers are confident they can make it maintaining decent performance.

They are confident, but that doesn't mean they're right. We'll see when it releases. ORBX are pros, so maybe they can, but it's just as likely it'll turn out to have persistent performance issues. I hope not, because it's a pretty big Cold War theater, right up my alley, but it's a very real possibility.

41 minutes ago, bies said:

This are not even trees, Kola Peninsula will have far more trees than Vietnam...

 

Well, I'm just gonna go ahead and disagree with you on this point.

Then I'll point out that Vietnamese palm trees won't be as uniform and "same looking" as those in Kola.  And then after that I'll point out that in the areas of VN that don't have trees, you'll have millions of bushes and shrubs on a scale not seen in Kola. Then all the tall grass. 

Will Nam have more nature to model than Kola ? I think it'll be wildly more, but let's say I'm wrong and they are similar or the same: it's still gonna be a challenge, I think, for both map projects.

Lots of villages, many on stilts. Lots of roads and unique buildings. Unique islands. Very mountainous, lots of unique elevation changes, including the terraced farming. 

 

41 minutes ago, bies said:

Marianas is just overall exceptionally high detail map, similar to Channel map, the obvious tradeoff of extremally detailed map is drop of performance.

I think Marianas map is the new standard going forward. A Vietnam map will likely have that level of detail density, if not higher. In fact, I think Marianas is a test to see how feasible a VN map is.

33 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

They are confident, but that doesn't mean they're right. We'll see when it releases. ORBX are pros, so maybe they can, but it's just as likely it'll turn out to have persistent performance issues. I hope not, because it's a pretty big Cold War theater, right up my alley, but it's a very real possibility.

Yes, but it doesn't work like that, developers are testing their map thousands of times, they are doing it practically every day through the years. It's not like thay are working for like 2 years, then going online and say: "we are fucked, 10fps". They are fine tuning level of details, texture resolution, terrain mesh, objects, they are very well aware what is current performance. It's all a compromise between visual fidelity and performance.

You can make phenomenal quality desert or one tiny island with poor performance and poor quality BosWash megalopolis or Shanghai with high performance.

Well, that doesn't stop maps from having performance issues, doesn't it? Marianas are fine with a 3080 and a screen, and it was also presumably tested "thousands of times". We don't know what ORBX tests its map on, particularly since development tends to involve rather beefy rigs. I can guarantee you that testing on relatively lower end machines, or in VR, is going to be a lot less extensive. Similarly, there's no good way to test MP performance in-house, this is what OB is for. Dev testing takes place in "laboratory" conditions, not in typical missions running in a realistic environment. The bottom line is, we don't know how the Kola map will perform.

We can be pretty sure there will be no "performance leaks", as in, bugs that unduly degrade performance. What might happen is that the bar for hardware requirements gets set fairly high, possibly higher than a typical DCS rig (already beefy by general gaming standards) can comfortably pull off, when running a real mission.

3 hours ago, bies said:

This are not even trees, Kola Peninsula will have far more trees than Vietnam yet developers are confident they can make it maintaining decent performance. Marianas is just overall exceptionally high detail map, similar to Channel map, the obvious tradeoff of extremally detailed map is drop of performance.

You are dealing with different types of forests. Vietnam would be a triple canopy jungle. 

So the issue is density and size

The Kola Peninsula would be similar to the Caucuses or the south Atlantic with tundra.

So the issue would mainly be size.

Either way we'll have to determine how vulkan and multithreading improves things and hope ED solves the problem of indestructible trees. It would be damn frustrating to drop an entire server load of Phantoms, Huns and Sandies carpet bombing a vc base camp that would have been toast in real lif3 1968 but not today because the Trees are are pure Ho Chi Minhium

3 hours ago, bies said:

Yes, but it doesn't work like that, developers are testing their map thousands of times, they are doing it practically every day through the years. It's not like thay are working for like 2 years, then going online and say: "we are fucked, 10fps".

 

On a general level I agree... however, past products have in fact resulted in the "we are f___, 4fps, damit!!"

Happened to at least a couple racing sims, several FPS types, and a few flight simulations too. Most of these I experienced firsthand, went online and discovered thousands of others were experiencing the same poor performance. 

Such a situation often kills a product, and puts the dev company at risk of collapse. Many years later, that same product might flourish for gamers with MUCH more powerful 'puters... but it's too late for collecting money for the efforts of the company making it, because by then the title is either abandonware, freeware or cheapware ($5 or less, maybe donations).

Now... did they not do enough testing on various levels of computers? Maybe. But I'm not talking about novice teams, all of them were experienced with multiple successful titles already, so being an outsider it's not entirely clear why they chose to only enable running on super powerful machines at ultra-low levels upon release. 

I'm not saying "impossible"... just that nothing's a guarantee, and the arrival time is an open question!