ILS problem ?

I am not able to get the ILS to work anymore, except in the ILS training mission... does the process changed or is it a bug ?

I just tried on Open Beta 2.5.5.40269.

It does work as expected, both with and without landing waypoint.

Did you select APP mode on PCA ?

Also, if you are making your own mission, you need to make a waypoint as LANDING waypoint in order to have ILS working for that particular airport...

Also, if you are making your own mission, you need to make a waypoint as LANDING waypoint in order to have ILS working for that particular airport...

No, that is true only for synthetic runway.

Without landing point you get everything else and you can still use ILS. This is is why I tried with and without landing point. :smilewink:

The ILS is interlocked, so if the wind direction is wrong, the ILS for the inactive runway direction is switched off. Set a headwind (can't remember what the threshold is, but around 5-7 knots), and you should be good to go.

IRL ILS availability for inactive runways is usually up tp the local ANSPs to decide for CAT I or lower, but CAT II and III systems are always interlocked.

I just tried on Open Beta 2.5.5.40269.

 

It does work as expected, both with and without landing waypoint.

 

Did you select APP mode on PCA ?

APP Mode, ILS frequency selected, tested on several runway, nothing to do, the TACAN work, but not the ILS. I used the ILS before, it worked, but now I am facing a systematic fail... The strange thing is that the ILS work in the Training Mission. I wonder if I missed something but I don't see what.

The ILS is interlocked, so if the wind direction is wrong, the ILS for the inactive runway direction is switched off. Set a headwind (can't remember what the threshold is, but around 5-7 knots), and you should be good to go.

Well seen... This was indeed a wind problem. Strange thing: for the airfields I tested (with only one-way ILS) the ILS is disabled if the wind speed at 10m is greater than 0 m/s and lesser than 3 m/s, whatever its direction. I dont't know if it is normal. One sure thing, this is not related to Mirage 2000 module.

Thanks for advice...

The wind direction in DCS mission editor is wrong, it's indicating wind direction to instead of from.

So it's reversed 180°.

Just in case :smilewink:

The wind direction in DCS mission editor is wrong, it's indicating wind direction to instead of from.

So it's reversed 180°.

 

Just in case :smilewink:

Wrong how? The arrow on the wind direction knob shows the direction in which the wind is blowing. No weather report I have ever seen has an arrow pointing towards where the wind is coming from...

Wrong how? The arrow on the wind direction knob shows the direction in which the wind is blowing. No weather report I have ever seen has an arrow pointing towards where the wind is coming from...

Then learn to read METAR & TAF and tells me about wind 303° :music_whistling:

METAR: UUEE 041500Z 24009MPS 2100 R24L/P2000N R24C/P2000N -SN OVC008 M02/M03 Q1005 R24L/590230 R24C/590225 R24R/590225 NOSIG

TAF: UUEE 041359Z 0415/0515 23007MPS 3000 -SN OVC007 TX03/0512Z TNM02/0415Z

TEMPO 0415/0419 26008G14MPS 1000 SHSN OVC004 BKN011CB

PROB40 TEMPO 0415/0421 -FZRA SCT003

BECMG 0501/0503 6000 NSW

aviation wind direction

I dont know, it might be a Russian thing but since the beginning (LOMAC, 2004) the wind in the sim shows the direction IN WHICH it is blowing... We got used to it... but it is contrary to all aviation weather (at least in the US/Canada and in Europe) where METAR and TAF reports as well as TOWER calls ALWAYS give you the direction FROM which the wind is blowing (I am a pilot, you can believe me)...

If you are landing runway 06 and the tower tells you 'wind 150 at 15 gusting 20' !!!! ...your eyes dart instantaneously to your right (3 O'clock) to see that wind sock giving you that VERY strong crosswind COMING FROM the right (FROM 150 degrees), and it is not fun...

By the way, talking about ILS, I just made a quick experiment (Vaziani, ILS 108,75 Mhz) with NO final waypoint and NO wind... I got an ILS guidance on both runway 32 and 14 (and no synthetic Runway, you are right Yoyo, I remember reading this in the manual). then I started again with a 5 m/s (about 10 knots) wind blowing from the north-west to the south-east, which would give us a preferred runway 32 and I still got an ILS signal on both runway directions...

The DCS mission editor doesn't operate with METAR messages (which, just for the record, I do know how to read) as input/output. Ideally it would, but it doesn't.

The point is that you have an arrow showing the wind direction in the mission editor. The arrow shows the direction the wind is blowing, and you cannot claim that this is wrong just because the bearing indicated by the arrow is contrary to a standard that the sim doesn't use.

I just did a quick research on aviation websites (including airlinepilotsforum and others) and it seems as if Russian METAR reports are no different than North American or European ones in terms of where the wind is coming from... the big difference is that it gives it in MPS and not in Knots and runway RVR are given in meters...

Example, right now (latest report was 15 minutes ago) at 15:30 ZULU in Moscow UUEE, the wind reported in the metar was 24008MPS which means 'wind 240 at 8 meters per second' (around 16 knots). I did put it in a professional decoder (Foreflight) and indeed it is 'wind FROM 240 at 16

:-)

I have no idea why in the first place ED started to put the wind reversed in 2004...

By the way, I can feel a hint of an explanation: in day-to-day weather websites and newpaper weather... the wind is symbolized often with an arrow pointing IN the direction TO which the wind is blowing... (like in the screenshot of drPhibes).

The greatest wind and weather website for everyday use (not good for aviation though) is WINDY.TV. If one puts the wind layer to see, there will be an animation that shows the wind moving from where it comes from To where it goes...(like little arrows) It looks very natural and intuitive, like if we visualize the wind itself... therefore, in a normal person's mind, it is more useful to understand the wind as going IN THIS direction, I agree...

It is just not how it is given in aviation because in aviation we really want to know where it is blowing from in order to decide which runway or what direction for a specific manoeuvre, etc... A pilot is always translating wind direction and landing direction as opposite.

The best paradox to overcome: (or Situational awareness to build)

-the wind comes from the north 360 (therefore blowing TO the south 180)

-you want to take off TOWARDS the direction of the north (runway 36) contrary to the wind

-you need to taxi in the direction of the south (180)

-You end up on the Southern end of the Runway

-It is printed 36 on the runway but you are at the southern extremity

-the wind is 360 but it blows To the south in your face

-you take off TOWARDS the north, therefore 360

the wind is 360, you take off in the opposite direction... 360...

HAHA!!

I did post METAR and TAF for UUEE on previous page.

The arrow for the wind is ok.

But I’m pretty most broad public weather TV report are saying where the wind comes from (from the North, from the east).

And this is more interesting écluse it will tell you what you can expect.

In France warm air from the south, rain from the west (Atlantic Ocean), cold from the North or from the East in winter.

In the quick mission brief before mission start, you only have wind direction in numbers, no fancy arrow. (Unless you have a cool script to write TAF style weather report).

So this is misleading and a constant pain in the a... for anyone use the aviation weather report.

Also it’s more natural to guess the QFU when you get the wind “from”.

Sorry, we went a little off road here, but this is really a nuisance in DCS as far as I’m concerned...:cry:

And there is no paradox in what you wrote. This is natural to me...

:smilewink:I know Jojo... but it is perhaps not natural to all... as a pilot one gets used to juggling with cardinal directions in one's head... but back to the (off-) topic... you are right that when people speak (radio-TV) they tell the direction from which the wind is blowing (le vent du nord!) but when they do a diagram (windy.tv) the arrows point where it goes... funny. And you are right that this inversion in DCS is a pain in the a...

DCS Mission editor use wind vectors (from->to) indication, because its purpose is rather "topographical" and its perspective is global. Also, standard meteo wind indication also use vector (from->to) type indicator with a special fashion to indicate the direction and speed (vector length).

The METAR / TAF protocol/report use a wind "heading" (coming from) indication, because the purpose is related to navigation and its perspective is mainly intented to be relative and "subjective" (to the pilot, or to a specific point on the map [eg. an airport]).

In two words:

- In a topographical context, on a map, if you want to show the wind, then, you simply draw an arrow (vector) because this is the best way to indicate its direction in a global view.

- In a navigational context, you tell the pilot from where the wind is comming from, because this is the best way for the pilot to know were the wind will "hit" him and what is its angle from its current heading.

Both views are totally okay in their respective context according their application.

Very well summarized Sedenion!!!! Yes!

The wind direction in DCS mission editor is wrong, it's indicating wind direction to instead of from.

So it's reversed 180°.

 

Just in case :smilewink:

Exactly.

Wrong how? The arrow on the wind direction knob shows the direction in which the wind is blowing. No weather report I have ever seen has an arrow pointing towards where the wind is coming from...

Wind 303 degrees means the wind is blowing from 303 degrees.

If you show the wind with an arrow it should point towards 123 degrees.

In two words:

- In a topographical context, on a map, if you want to show the wind, then, you simply draw an arrow (vector) because this is the best way to indicate its direction in a global view.

- In a navigational context, you tell the pilot from where the wind is comming from, because this is the best way for the pilot to know were the wind will "hit" him

Both of this still is the same: Wind in degrees is shown from where it is blowing.

- In the weather chart case - The arrow comes from northwest 303 degrees, and points to southeast 123 degrees. Arrow should point down right.

In the TAF/METAR case, 303 degrees is the value.

Description of wind is Worldwide via ICAO: It really does’nt matter where. For a few countrys, winds is given in meter per second instead of knots. When flying into these places, if not used to this just double the m/s and you have knots.

The only real difference about winds is the reference. Meteorological repoerts is given in direkction “True” when written text like TAF/METAR etc. When spoken on the radio from tower the wind reference is Magnetic.