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shkval moves withouth input


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Hello,

 

i have a problem with lock on via shkval. Often, the shkval moves withouth my input. It just goes of in a random direction.

I usually set the rough position of the shkval via the "o" key. Then, i navigate precisely with with my hat switch, and than i lock the target with enter. if i i dont get the "ta" sighn, i press enter again. correct the poistion via hat switch and lock again.

 

Do i make a mistake?

 

I also didn't find a way to reset that. I just position the shkval randomly, until it works right again.

 

This is driving me crazy. While this really sucks for ground targets, it makes it impossible for me, to lock air targets. This is really ruining my experience with that heli, because half of the time, i'm fighting the shkval instead of the enemy.^^

 

Also, i don't think this issue is hardware related. I tried to set the navigation of the shkval to my other hat switch, and i'm having the same problem there. And i'm having no problems in other games.

 

Thank you in advance

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Yeah, long term bug. The Shkval is very unrealistic and very much unusable at its current state in KA-50 as well in Su-25T.

 

There is no contrast lock.

The Shkval starts wandering as pleased by itself.

The laser ranging is illogical and faulty.

The tracking is based to object ID.

No various filters for different weather/time of day conditions.

The camera definition is too high.

 

Etc.

 

Only thing we can hope is that ED recodes the whole Shkval system for contrast based targeting and tracking system, with working laser ranging and logic.

 

It would make Shkval use much more challenging but as well far more capable and powerful.

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Wait, is this a joke? Why this isn't fixed, if that's a known problem since years? Thats a critical feature. Charging that much for a single heli, i expect this to work. Selling a combat heli for 50€, that half of the time is not able lock a target is an absolute shitty move.

 

Well there is nothing i can do about it, but this will definitively prevent me from buying any other module.

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Well, likely they have not fixed it because "Black Shark 3" is under development, and here are new features to be developed like new FLIR and such, so somewhere there likely is new targeting system logic and functions that Shkval would get to use.

 

So everything related to new features would get on hold, even for a years.

 

Is it annoying? Yes.

What can you do? Wait.

 

It is not funny that when the targeting system is clearly broken by its design, but if you report it you just get attacked by a various fans that were part of the beta testing or so and are telling that "everything is as designed".

 

KA-50 is old.... Very old.

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Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact, that they charge 50 bucks for broken target system. If i would have known that, before buying, i would have not invested in this heli.

 

Do i get the black shark 3 automaticly if it's released?

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Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact, that they charge 50 bucks for broken target system. If i would have known that, before buying, i would have not invested in this heli.

 

Do i get the black shark 3 automaticly if it's released?

 

 

lols, no chance you have to pay again

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Please understand Fri13 is being a bit over-dramatic.

 

Yes the shkval has its bugs, but the shkval and Ka-50 is FAR, FAR, FAR, from unusable. Just the other day I flew the Ka-50 for over 3 straight hours as part of a clan mission. I racked up over 20 vehicle kills, 20 infantry kills, and shot down 3 Mi-8's, all with a combination of Vikhrs, UPK-23, and main gun, all between ranges of 2.5 and 8 km. This mission took place in Georgia between 5:30-9:00 AM Local time.

 

Yes, the initial low light made it difficult to find targets and get a lock; but by playing with the brightness and contrast it can make it much easier.

 

As for the Shkval wandering bug... well, I personally have not experienced it in quite some time. I've even recently been wondering if it had been quietly fixed. Guess I'm just lucky.

 

Laser ranging, yes it's true it's not ideal, but it works.

 

Sorry Fri13, but statements like, "Shkval is very unrealistic and very much unusable at its current state in KA-50," is an entirely FALSE statement, and kind of tweaked a nerve. I'm not looking to get into an argument with you; but obvious false statements only discourages and pushes away people who could realistically enjoy flying a great aircraft.

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Please understand Fri13 is being a bit over-dramatic.

 

Yes the shkval has its bugs, but the shkval and Ka-50 is FAR, FAR, FAR, from unusable. Just the other day I flew the Ka-50 for over 3 straight hours as part of a clan mission. I racked up over 20 vehicle kills, 20 infantry kills, and shot down 3 Mi-8's, all with a combination of Vikhrs, UPK-23, and main gun, all between ranges of 2.5 and 8 km. This mission took place in Georgia between 5:30-9:00 AM Local time.

 

Yes, the initial low light made it difficult to find targets and get a lock; but by playing with the brightness and contrast it can make it much easier.

 

As for the Shkval wandering bug... well, I personally have not experienced it in quite some time. I've even recently been wondering if it had been quietly fixed. Guess I'm just lucky.

 

Laser ranging, yes it's true it's not ideal, but it works.

 

Sorry Fri13, but statements like, "Shkval is very unrealistic and very much unusable at its current state in KA-50," is an entirely FALSE statement, and kind of tweaked a nerve. I'm not looking to get into an argument with you; but obvious false statements only discourages and pushes away people who could realistically enjoy flying a great aircraft.

 

 

To be honest: if he has the same problem like me, i can understand him. In your post, it looks like your having this wandering bug very rarely, is this correct?

I have this everytime i play with the k50. I would say every 5th lockon try, ends up in the shkval going wild. If this would happen just every few days, i would have no problem with it.

 

Has someone found a solution, to set this back, if it happens?

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Please understand Fri13 is being a bit over-dramatic.

 

I am not.

 

Sorry Fri13, but statements like, "Shkval is very unrealistic and very much unusable at its current state in KA-50," is an entirely FALSE statement, and kind of tweaked a nerve. I'm not looking to get into an argument with you; but obvious false statements only discourages and pushes away people who could realistically enjoy flying a great aircraft.

 

Please... It ain't false but completely true.

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To be honest: if he has the same problem like me, i can understand him. In your post, it looks like your having this wandering bug very rarely, is this correct?

I have this everytime i play with the k50. I would say every 5th lockon try, ends up in the shkval going wild. If this would happen just every few days, i would have no problem with it.

 

Has someone found a solution, to set this back, if it happens?

 

Yes, that is correct; I have not experienced this bug in quite some time. Now I quite often do a lot of scouting and pre-planning before I engage targets. I find them, mark them through D/L, relay to other Ka-50's, etc., possibly engage if SAM or AAA, and move on. Maybe it's the fact that I am constantly resetting the shkval that gives me a pass; I don't know.

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Something I noticed with this is that if you enable HMD first, point that at target area, and then uncage shkval it will be ground stabilized and work as expected.

 

Then most likely that would be why I don't experience the wandering bug.

 

HMD is active before I'm even wheels up. Brightness reduced to the point where it's barely visible so as not to be annoying. I use my eyes before all else. Then when I see something that peeks my interest, I use HMD to bring the camera to it. I'm constantly resetting and using HMD to look at various places.

 

Side Note: It's even nice to use the HMD to fly the aircraft.

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Something I noticed with this is that if you enable HMD first, point that at target area, and then uncage shkval it will be ground stabilized and work as expected.

 

That is what I use primarily....

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Then most likely that would be why I don't experience the wandering bug.

 

HMD is active before I'm even wheels up. Brightness reduced to the point where it's barely visible so as not to be annoying. I use my eyes before all else. Then when I see something that peeks my interest, I use HMD to bring the camera to it. I'm constantly resetting and using HMD to look at various places.

 

Side Note: It's even nice to use the HMD to fly the aircraft.

 

I just started really learning the Ka 50 in the last few weeks after having owned it since the sale before they raised the price on it (and the A10C) whenever that was. I also haven't had the wandering issue yet and I've played through all of the training missions and about 30 times now through my own pre-made target mission on Georgia, Nevada, and the PG.

 

The sensor will 'drift' from side-to-side if you hold O as it begins to scan. Is that maybe the issue? I do use the HMD a lot, but not exclusively. I'll have to test this out a bit tonight. I only play on stable too.

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I'm with baaz here.

Close to zero problems in any light conditions.

 

When I have, it's usually because I'm out of trim and the nose of the helicopter is drifting. Easy fix

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This has been a thing since the helicopter first came out.

Ever heard people begging for tracking based on contrast? This is part of the reason why.

 

In reality the Shkval would track anything inside the targeting box as long as there is enough contrast to make out something. That's why you can change the size of the targeting box (which is currently completely useless).

In DCS BS you just point at a solid object (basically everything except trees or terrain) and the Shkval magically keeps tracking it.

 

If the Shkval isn't tracking and is slewed it falls back into some sort of calculated stabilized mode, which doesn't take into account terrain elevation. You could be looking at a target 10km away, but because you're above a hill you'll be stabilized on some point in the air along the way.

 

Using the HMS works because it instructs the Shkval to look at a certain coordinate in 3D space (just like targeting a datalink point) and it will stay there until you start slewing. It's the way they programmed it and it makes no sense. Either the Shkval knows terrain elevation or it doesn't. Not both at the same time.

 

The only way around that is using the laser range finder often, which of course will lead to a lot of burnt out lasers.

 

Using trees as cover can also cause a similar issue. If only one branch is visible at the edge of the screen the Shkval might be following that tree. It's the first 'object' in line of sight, so DCS assumes it should be tracking that.

In this case the laser might only give you the range to the tree and track a point right next to it, because trees reflect so much stray laser energy .... insert Picard facepalm here.

 

The Shkval really needs an update and this isn't the only issue it has.

 

You can deal with it if you're perfectly hovering 7km away from a cluster of enemies (like on most servers these days), but try providing CAS in an area where you can't afford to stop and engage targets of opportunity. You either abuse the HMS, burn out your laser or go mad.


Edited by fudabidu
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This has been a thing since the helicopter first came out.

Ever heard people begging for tracking based on contrast? This is part of the reason why.

 

In reality the Shkval would track anything inside the targeting box as long as there is enough contrast to make out something. That's why you can change the size of the targeting box (which is currently completely useless).

In DCS BS you just point at a solid object (basically everything except trees or terrain) and the Shkval magically keeps tracking it.

 

If the Shkval isn't tracking and is slewed it falls back into some sort of calculated stabilized mode, which doesn't take into account terrain elevation. You could be looking at a target 10km away, but because you're above a hill you'll be stabilized on some point in the air along the way.

 

Using the HMS works because it instructs the Shkval to look at a certain coordinate in 3D space (just like targeting a datalink point) and it will stay there until you start slewing. It's the way they programmed it and it makes no sense. Either the Shkval knows terrain elevation or it doesn't. Not both at the same time.

 

The only way around that is using the laser range finder often, which of course will lead to a lot of burnt out lasers.

 

Using trees as cover can also cause a similar issue. If only one branch is visible at the edge of the screen the Shkval might be following that tree. It's the first 'object' in line of sight, so DCS assumes it should be tracking that.

In this case the laser might only give you the range to the tree and track a point right next to it, because trees reflect so much stray laser energy .... insert Picard facepalm here.

 

The Shkval really needs an update and this isn't the only issue it has.

 

You can deal with it if you're perfectly hovering 7km away from a cluster of enemies (like on most servers these days), but try providing CAS in an area where you can't afford to stop and engage targets of opportunity. You either abuse the HMS, burn out your laser or go mad.

The auto tracking inside the targetting box isn't the issue.

 

Occasionally the shkval just goes wonky and will just go to the left or right until it stops.

 

It's not tracking. Literally just goes to one extreme and then stops.

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Please be so kind to provide a track file or at least a video so I can see for myself.

 

The Shkval can drift every time it's NOT tracking ... that's why I brought up the (non-existant) tracking based on contrast.


Edited by fudabidu
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Yeah it's happened to me too over the years but...

 

Unusable?

 

Come on Fri... It's quite usable.

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Yeah, long term bug. The Shkval is very unrealistic and very much unusable at its current state in KA-50 as well in Su-25T.

 

There is no contrast lock.

The Shkval starts wandering as pleased by itself.

The laser ranging is illogical and faulty.

The tracking is based to object ID.

No various filters for different weather/time of day conditions.

The camera definition is too high.

 

Etc.

 

Only thing we can hope is that ED recodes the whole Shkval system for contrast based targeting and tracking system, with working laser ranging and logic.

 

It would make Shkval use much more challenging but as well far more capable and powerful.

 

I appreciate how your list has a number of things that'd make our life harder.

 

Having to manually correct in low-contrast environments (basically going SACLOS) would be exciting!

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Unusable? Not for me, happily shooting and engaging targets close and far away.

 

Sure, it has a mind of its own sometimes but it's manageable. I can only imagine the outcry of the community if ED would change the current target tracking logic to contrast tracking, the howls of rage would fill nights of agony.

 

From a programmers point of view, the current decision to make it track object IDs is a valid one as otherwise one would need to write software that will ook at your image every few frames and determine if you've still locked onto something with contrast and tell this to the server sim. Imagine doing that with multiple KA50s and targets, the server would go nuts!

 

Tradeoffs had to be made to make the game playable. If you can do a better job, or think you can, provide evidence and calculations to back up your claim.

 

Complaining won't get you far, providing solutions will.

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"Servers would go nuts" .. no they won't, because the Shkval logic is running on the client side, as are most other things. If the server was involved in every little thing like this we'd need insane computers to host any kind of multiplayer mission and every single optical sensor would make it worse. Think about it.

 

That said, contrast tracking would be easy. Just use the Shkval feed and evaluate the contrast inside the tracking box.

 

Can we all get back on topic now? It's amazing how you can mention a single shortcoming relevant to a problem and everything derails. Also, where are the videos or track files showing the original problem?

No wonder this is getting no support.

 

It's probably one of those quirks that have been around since forever (and which I tried to explain).

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Yeah it's happened to me too over the years but...

 

Unusable?

 

Come on Fri... It's quite usable.

 

I said "very much unusable", not "completely unusable".

 

Like Majority of the capabilities you should be able to do with Shkval, and what you should AVOID to do with Shkval are NON EXISTING because contrast lock is not implemented. There is no logic in the tracking, there is no logic in ranging, there is no logic in many of its systems because it is so oversimplified in programming.

 

That makes it "Very much unusable" (again, not same thing as "completely unusable". It means "Quite usable" but not "completely usable".).

 

As long you play with the fantasy idea of how it is working in the DCS, you are some what OK, but even then it will just ruin your day as it suddenly jumps from 7 km range to 15 km range or to 0.2 km range and sleeves itself to some random directions like nothing.

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Can we all get back on topic now? It's amazing how you can mention a single shortcoming relevant to a problem and everything derails. Also, where are the videos or track files showing the original problem?

No wonder this is getting no support.

 

I have plenty of videos about that, but I have been wondering is there any use to start doing couple dozen bug reports when the Black Shark 3 is coming out that renders likely everything undone (it is literally same thing as starting now to report bug reports for Black Shark 1).

 

When I get to on computer where I have those videos, I will post one here about how problematic the system truly is.

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