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[REPORTED] blackout bug


9.JG27 DavidRed

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(...)In reality, even if the pilot loses the vision he's still concious and can act on the controls.. thing that can be seen in my above Spitfire vid and not so much on the 109. (...)

*cough* interesting. Where did you get the idea, that with the brain shutting down for lack of oxygenated blood -which is quite well represented, by the "vision" fading out into "darkness" - you can control anything?!

The root cause for the "black out" is that you fall unconscious. I fell unconscious once in my live, believe me, the moment the vision fades you struggle to keep upright but can't and next you remember is somebody looming over your face asking you if you are hurt from the fall. And I did not even remember falling.

 

And this is nothing like a G-Induced blackout.

 

You may want to watch this. Details a bit better what I mean, than I can write here.

 

EDIT part 2 of the video for convenience


Edited by shagrat
Added Part 2 of the video

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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So we need to add the black out to the Spitfire.

With no G-suit you need to be very careful to not pull G over more than a few seconds, or you black out.

THIS is my problem! In the K4 I black out suddenly, even when I release the stick, nothing like that happens in the other modules.. Spitty is just an example where I can pull constant Gs with the confidence that I'll stay awake, where it should be vice versa.

 

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Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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*cough* interesting. Where did you get the idea, that with the brain shutting down for lack of oxygenated blood -which is quite well represented, by the "vision" fading out into "darkness" - you can control anything?!

The root cause for the "black out" is that you fall unconscious. I fell unconscious once in my live, believe me, the moment the vision fades you struggle to keep upright but can't and next you remember is somebody looming over your face asking you if you are hurt from the fall. And I did not even remember falling.

 

And this is nothing like a G-Induced blackout.

 

You may want to watch this. Details a bit better what I mean, than I can write here.

 

I beg your pardon, Sir.. please indulge in reading this exquisite piece of document. https://dokumente.unibw.de/pub/bscw.cgi/d5424463/ASEM_1995_66(7)_675-7.pdf

 

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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I beg your pardon, Sir.. please indulge in reading this exquisite piece of document. https://dokumente.unibw.de/pub/bscw.cgi/d5424463/ASEM_1995_66(7)_675-7.pdf

 

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Nice paper, but it just says pretty much the same. Greyout (loss of peripheral vision) is an indication for a coming G-LOC, so if you just relax the stick a bit you reduce the G-forces, but you can only prolong the inevitable a bit.

The blood already gone from your upper body causing a desaturation of oxygen in the brain is not reverted by the reducing the G-forces a bit. It gives you a few seconds more before the brain blacks out.

 

What I was referring to, originally was the comment about being able to control a plane during blackout/G-Loc.

As the document says, even after recovery pilots had issues, including control of movements, vision, hearing etc. Which isn't modeled.

 

The general problem with G-forces is, we only have the visuals as indicaters in DCS. So if the peripheral vision is affected it is a signal to release the stick to a point where the vision clears again. The longer you stay in the regime where your vision is impaired, the more likely a G-LOC occurs.

 

I agree, we should have a consistent behaviour on G-forces in similar situations.

 

One thing to notice is, that I've read in a thread ED have modeled G-resilience training, so if you turn a couple turns with high G's the pilot is taking subsequent maneuvers better and can sustain high G's a bit better.

But I never tested this myself.


Edited by shagrat

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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  • 8 months later...

Are these issues addressed, at least internally.. just curious.

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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  • 1 year later...

I Poke this also again, because one of most anoying things in the 109 when you fly manual Prob Pitch..also Track needed?

 

 

 

 

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

9./JG27

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For manual Prob Pitch you have to push the Button with higher or lower Prob Angle, When you go in to black out Pilot is falling asleep on the Button kills every Time you engine...

As example when you increase blade angle from Prob, and you go in to Black out the it will increase the Prob Pitch without Player input all the Way up or down to the Point you wake Up again..

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

9./JG27

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ok...look at the videos NineLine shown above!

 

if you start to lower your flaps before blacking out, the virtual pilot will continue to turn the wheel even when blacked out...so for example you had the flaps at lets say 10° at the moment when the blackout starts, and when you become conscious again, the flaps are fully down.

same is true for the prop pitch, if you manipulate the prop pitch in the moment the pilot is blacking out, he will continue to increase or decrease the prop pitch while blacked out. resulting in either over-reving the engine with possible engine failure, or ending up with ridiculously low rpm..100% reproducable every single time since the release of the module.


Edited by birdstrike
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  • 2 years later...
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