Inside view of TM HOTAS Warthog

I think a different lubricant might make a huge diffrence as well. If I put downward pressure n the stick while moving it, the sticktion becomes more pronounced. If I lift up on the stick handle while moving it, the sticktion becomes almost non-existent. This seems to me like the friction is in the ball socket.

I think the way you have ergonomically placed the stick has a lot to do with how much sticktion you will feel. Mine is mounted higher than I would like and as I use it, the weight of my entire arm is being supported by the stick. I may change my setup to lower the stick (been planning on that anyway) and I'm sure this will help.

Just be sure not to mix greases, as one grease may react badly with another.

I think a different lubricant might make a huge diffrence as well. If I put downward pressure n the stick while moving it, the sticktion becomes more pronounced. If I lift up on the stick handle while moving it, the sticktion becomes almost non-existent. This seems to me like the friction is in the ball socket.

 

I think the way you have ergonomically placed the stick has a lot to do with how much sticktion you will feel. Mine is mounted higher than I would like and as I use it, the weight of my entire arm is being supported by the stick. I may change my setup to lower the stick (been planning on that anyway) and I'm sure this will help.

Agreed, when I place the stick lower and pull the stick up while moving the "sticktion" decreases. I don't like the need to do that for the stick to work properly though.

Another thing I'm thinking about is to increase the "arm" of the stick. So, making an extention tube would probably also overcome the sticktion.

I'm also going to try different types of grease, see if that helps.

Not sure what's up with your copy.

 

I can make a dead smooth pull from center to full back taking much longer than 20 seconds to do it and not have any bumps/lurches at all. That's (much) slower than any move I'd make leading. It's as smooth as the throttle for me.

I'm pretty sure my copy is no different from other samples. Sample variation seems to be unlikely with this type of construction.

For how long do you own your Warthog? How many hours have you made with it?

I have over twentyfive hours flying time now with my warthog and I havent felt what you are feeling. Mostly combat missions, but formation flying also. No bumps here LOL. Not even when I try to do what you write. I am very happy with this stick. Are you sure its not just in your head because you are so used to a looser stick like the x52? That thing has almost no friction at all, so maybe you just arent used to that yet? Because im not feeling what you describe except perfectly normal and smooth friction. Perhaps going from a stick with almost no friction to one that has friction takes more time than you gave it. Anyway no bumps or stickiness in the stick here.

Maybe you can take it back and get your money back if you hurry.

Good news, I have taken the grease of the spring and added it in to the ball socket, now the stick is smoother. The question remains for how long it will be this smooth.

I guess that the amount of grease differs on each unit, so if you incounter the sticktion and you are bothered about it, you could open *at your own risk* the stick and do the same as I did.

If TM is paying attention here, it would be good not to save on grease at the production line.

I'm very happy to make this "discovery" since I was afraid the 400 euro stick would not live up to all my requirements. For now, it does.

If someone knows what type of grease TM uses, please post it as it looks like we will need to add some grease every now and then.

*EDIT* Adding grease did not solve the problem over time.*EDIT*

Glad to hear you solved your problem. And very good info to know if more people ever get the same problem.

We need greasy balls! :joystick: :D

We need greasy balls! :joystick: :D

:megalol:

Speaking solely from my experience in dealing with my Cougar at purchase, I would not rely too much on the 'default' grease supplied. A Teflon-based grease will be perfect as it is specifically utilized for plastic on plastic applications and is dry to boot, as opposed to a 'wet' grease that's bound to attract dust/detritis as time goes by.

Might even see an increase in performance, especially for you where precision is paramount.

Hi.

I've meet same "sticktion" issue on my Warthog. Changing the grease to Motul Road ChainLube (As I've done for my Cougar with the success) not helps at all.

I'm thinking to polish ball-joint, hope it'll helps.

BTW - will Warthog-stick burn my Cougar if I set it to Cougar base?

Changing the grease to Motul Road ChainLube (As I've done for my Cougar with the success) not helps at all.

I'm thinking to polish ball-joint, hope it'll helps.

Obviously will not help on the Warthog.......Cougar gimbals are metal whereas WH ball-joint is plastic. As I said before - use a Teflon Dry grease ;)

Hi.

BTW - will Warthog-stick burn my Cougar if I set it to Cougar base?

Was wondering the same thing!

@Necroscope: It is absolutely fine to put the Warthog stick onto a Cougar base. Everything will work except the new button (CMS push). Based on one person's input, it may not seat properly on a U2NXT Cougar base, but mine worked perfectly on a stock Cougar as well as FCC...and I've been told by other VTBers that it worked fine w/ FSSB as well.

@Frazer:

I had a final preproduction unit that I ran from the end of May into October. It was always smooth except one day when the (hand cut, preproduction) o-ring slid a bit out of place and I had to reposition it. Hard to say how many hours I put on it...but it had at least some use nearly every day, and usage was pretty heavy the first 2 weeks during preparations for E3.

Teej

Frankly, paying anything extra for a grease/spray with teflon is a waste of money due to what Teflon is and isn't.

In order for it to work, it needs to be bonded to one surface so that it prevents other things from sticking to it. That's only going to happen as part of a manufacturing process - adding it to an oil/grease won't do it.

That's why "slick 50" products are at best a waste of money and at worst counterproductive.

In this usage (Warthog) I wouldn't expect teflon to do any harm...but I similarly wouldn't expect any benefit from it either, all else being equal.

Thanx for reply. Most likely I'll put the Warthog on Cougar. Heh... it's sounds em... special.

What about polishing?

What do you think - will the polishing of balls (he-he) solve the issue?

I would be hesitant about polishing because when you polish you're essentially removing material...by removing material, you increase the size difference between the inside and outside of the ball...which means you're likely to add slop.

Plus, any roughness in the surface will help hold grease in place. A super smooth mating surface would simply push the grease away under pressure.

I would be hesitant about polishing because when you polish you're essentially removing material...by removing material, you increase the size difference between the inside and outside of the ball...which means you're likely to add slop.

 

Plus, any roughness in the surface will help hold grease in place. A super smooth mating surface would simply push the grease away under pressure.

Eah, you right, But I think in case of ball-joint this small difference will be self-ajusted by balls itsels.

Probably the issue is somewhere else?

Thanx for reply. Most likely I'll put the Warthog on Cougar. Heh... it's sounds em... special.

 

What about polishing?

What do you think - will the polishing of balls (he-he) solve the issue?

Don't polish your balls, they need to be hairy! :D

Seriously now, polishing is pointless. The only thing that can increase smoothness is the grease between the joint. Finding the right grease is of high importance here. The "stock" grease is already very good, so I would first start with increasing the amount like I did.

Even more to the point...polishing the balls would probably increase the friction.

Physicists will tell you (at least at a high school level) that friction between two surfaces depends on the coefficient of friction between them and the force pushing them together. This excludes surface area. They're right in many conditions (ideal, non-deformable materials. Kinda like the "ideal gas law" works for most gases even if they're not "ideal"). However, clearly there are exceptions. Do you really think tires 20mm wide would provide exactly the same grip as tires 250mm wide? Under all conditions? Neither do I.

There is a happy medium in honing. That's what engine builders do (they leave the piston / cylinder surfaces slightly rough...sometimes deliberately grinding a crosshatch into the cylinder wall...and allow the parts to "wear together" which is why you're often not recommended to exceed a certain RPM for the first xxxx number of miles.

I also would like my stick to be a tad smoother. Sorry I do not trust some random Chinese worker who is starving to appropriately apply the grease which I am sure came from the lowest bulk bidder.

I've found: http://www.dowcorning.com/content/news/molykote_news_EM30L.asp

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270667875956&rvr_id=175598039243&crlp=1_263602_304642&UA=%3F*S%3F&GUID=523563bd12a0a0645c770fc7ffab6e5c&itemid=270667875956&ff4=263602_304642

For $7 it looks like it might be pretty good to try. Although I am going to head to the hardware store to see what they have first.

I think the first TM stick mod will consist of a ball/socket design, just as we have, but I think the ball will have at least 4 ball bearings imbedded. This will reduce the surface contact between the ball and socket to just the socket surface and the surface of the 4 ball bearings imbedded in the ball.

Now how cool would that be?

I must say though, Frazer...I had a lot of respect for you before, and this only raised it higher. Too many people would simply say "Oh, this sucks" and walk away.

I'm not happy that this appears to be a QC issue in terms of how the grease is applied (and how much)...but there's worse ways it could've played out.

Mine is a little sticky too, good to hear that lubricate can help. That Molykote grease looks really good to try whith

Will need the hog prosthesis for his balls in the future?

nobody knows.... :-D

I don't have a problem with the plastic. CH makes plastic all over and their sticks are all very high quality. Something that you don't get guaranteed for a metal joint.

Besides that, I've already modded my TMW. I'm simply not a friend of 400 Euros Arm-muscle-trainers. As a friend of mine said: Planes have to be flown with two fingers, not like a constant fight with white knuckles.

I was pretty sad they didn't make the spring for the stick adjustable, but I simply removed it. Instead I moved the 4 smaller springs on top of the ring. Now the friction along the steel tubes is largely minimized and the stick is very smoothly move-able to all extends. No center play, no uneven resistance. Very comfortable.

And you don't need to be Schwarzenegger to make little precise adjustments in a dogfight.

Besides that, it eases the pressure on the plastic balls. Works nice for me.

hmmm, that's interesting. Will give it a try. Is the stick still standing upright?

hmmm, that's interesting. Will give it a try. Is the stick still standing upright?

Yes.

And it does recenter, even if you release it fully pushed to either limit.