Normandy and current aircraft Discussion

No I already beat like 3 in mp, and even put out a video in p51 thread. That fight though made me loose interest even more. Because I don't feel like I can use anything to my advantage. I am only hoping that my enemy makes a big mistake that I can exploit. If he is not making big mistakes he is going to win.

I feel that I am helpless each time I put that freetrck hat I feel depressed. It isn't me beating my enemy. It is my enemy beating himself:(

The P-40F i think is sort of a tease at the war in the pacific era, plus they were being used in Africa and Italy too, so dont think of it as a historical inaccuracy but as groundwork being laid for future projects in sort from 3PD`s and ED.

With respect to VEAO's plans, no tis is not the case.

We are purely focused on Europe and Africa :)

Pman

German fighters werent better for most part. LoL. The K4 is last resort plane. The P-51 and 47 were dominating sky in 43 and44. Your knowledge is limited. Read about 8th airfocr area of opratons. If German planes were better the allies would never win air superiority. The K4 was not a factor in 1944. They were too few. And still with G14 it would have betterblow speed handling and could beat a 51. Both planes need to use their advantages and exploit enemy's disadvantages and the best pilot wins

K4 vs51 is just totally 109 the wining side having all the advantages. And mission makers will never make a mission where IE 109 has no MW50. People want to fly it at100% as everyone would like to

So when other aircraft are released they shouldn't be allowed in because they were not in that theatre? again, they're laying ground work for other eras and theatres of war guys. I think regardless of what aircraft are released and when, we should be thankful that people from ED and other 3PD's have dedicated in most cases their lives to bringing us truly exquisite aircraft and the level of detail in a simulator they can produce. I dont care that I'm in a D-9 and im flying against Spit mk24 ( just a far off example). Im just happy that someone made a fully dynamic model that mimics the real thing and I can fly it. So what if they have a K-4 in 1944 against mk9 spits and 51d's, get better with your plane and it won't matter what you fly because you know your plane and you know how to use it to it's fullest potential which allows you to come out on top.

i really like that post!i pretty much agree on this...for now we are flying on a map which doesnt fit at all...next we will be getting a ww2 normandy map. and although the project is labeled as europe 1944, we are not forced to simulate 1944.it could be any date in ww2 really.also it will certainly not be the last ww2 map we will be getting, and the current stable of ww2 aircraft will also not represent the final list of ww2 aircraft we will see in dcs.

its like a big puzzle, getting more and more complete with every new module, feature and map we will see in future.

i think that discussing whether a K4 fits into normandy 1944 is the wrong approach...as i see it, the K4 is only the first version of 109s, and normandy only the first ww2 map in dcs...

furthermore, its been stated several times by the devs that they chose the K4 because of best documentation.my 2cents.

Once again your thinking is very narrow. I didnt say the Germans was historically better, its quite obvious that the Germans were getting their butts handed to them by that time, but that was more about numbers and less about the quality of their designs (maybe you need to re-read your history, the Luftwaffe was all but crushed by then, the Allies had air superiority, didnt matter the quality of the German aircraft at that point), you think that because the Germans lost the war and were getting kicked hard in 43/44 that you should be able to beat a 109 easily in a 1v1 fight... your knowledge is limiting your common sense. Even you said above that the K-4 was a better aircraft that the P-51D... so what is it?

 

You are a confusing guy, I have no clue what you are complaining about, sounds like a case of IAS (Instant Ace Syndrome) you read that a P-51 shot down a bunch of 109s and now you think you should be an ace because you read some stuff. And if a 109 betters you, you complain about balance and demand an older 109... silly.

+ The germans had another big disadvantage: stupid incompetent leaders like Goering and Hitler which imposed their idiotic strategy :

- me262 as a bomber idea .

- Sending fighter planes with bombes attacked to conduct low alt ground attack missions in Normandy .It just so stupid to do that with 10.000 allied fighter with height advantage flying around.

A german pilot wrote home "We are here to be used ". It's my understanding that he wanted to say they were used by their leaders in an idiotic war.

Normandy 1944 map is for me just a map. I am flying FW 190 over Russia and i don't care. You can't balance something that wasn't balanced. Lets fly P51 vs P51 or 109 vs 109 for balance. What we will do when ME 262 come out? We need to hope that Gloster Meteor will be out too or put an Saber on it :D Oh my god guys please realize it is a flying simulation game. I really like that this game is as real as possible but it should be fun to play in the first place. I do not want to offend anyone and this is only my point of view. I am just starting to feel like not everyone here is understanding how much we should be glad for hard work of ED and the other developers.

Normandy 1944 map is for me just a map. I am flying FW 190 over Russia and i don't care. You can't balance something that wasn't balanced. Lets fly P51 vs P51 or 109 vs 109 for balance. What we will do when ME 262 come out? We need to hope that Gloster Meteor will be out too or put an Saber on it :D Oh my god guys please realize it is a flying simulation game. I really like that this game is as real as possible but it should be fun to play in the first place. I do not want to offend anyone and this is only my point of view. I am just starting to feel like not everyone here is understanding how much we should be glad for hard work of ED and the other developers.

I feel the same.

It would be so much fun to play what if F86 vs me262 scenarios .What if 1945 normandy and so on.

Also you can act, pretend as if normandy map is a part of german north coastliene or something like that .

Yes at that stage of the war them had much against them, they were indeed their own worst enemy.

 

Now take all that out, put a shiny Bf 109K-4 vs and shiny P-51D and the odds dont look so bleak... That's the only point I was trying to get across, but some seem to think, just because in 1944 they Germans were losing hard, thatislp lhow all scenarios in DCS should end up, no matter the scenario.

No. You just don't understand that k4 had next to 0 significance for 1944 operations as it was made way after p51d and p47d were produced.

If you want contemporary fighter you take P51D and 109G14. G14 is still a month newer version than p51D.

DCS simulates a very rare ocassion that almost never occured in 1944. As number of K4 fighters was too small. You have0 idea how big of advantage the K4 has right now. Anyone who claims he got his kills with 109K4 just because he is a good pilot is just fooling himself.

And I am not buying this " it will develop" argument as it was already stated that ED is just fulfilling thekickstarter agreement. If they wanted to make a real 1944 sim they would have put Gustav and anton or early Dora. Iam tired of the fact that Almost every WW2 game is Wheraboo heaven and allies always have to fight outnumbered and having worse equipment. Because Germans are using wunderwaffe while allies have the worst possible configurations.

Last time I flew P51 I shot down 1 109. Lat time I flew K4 i be shot down 3 mustangs and didn't even break a sweat.

I an just tired of that.

Normandy 1944, hmn.....

Yep the K4 and the D9 did fight over the sky of Normandy irl.

Oh wait....

Nope, by the time they were operational the Allies've already liberated France and advancing toward the Netherland.

So apparently we've already thrown historical accuracy out of the windows I think some of you here would be happy to see F86 and F8F vs K4 and D9, and I'll copy your post and hold you to it if you don't play that map, on the side of Germans. :)

Normandy 1944, hmn.....

 

Yep the K4 and the D9 did fight over the sky of Normandy irl.

 

Oh wait....

 

Nope, by the time they were operational the Allies've already liberated France and advancing toward the Netherland.

 

So apparently we've already thrown historical accuracy out of the windows I think some of you here would be happy to see F86 and F8F vs K4 and D9, and I'll copy your post and hold you to it if you don't play that map, on the side of Germans. :)

F86 vs K4 is a little bit too much. On the other hand P 51 vs Me 262 should be ok. But none will be ever forced to fly anything which simply do not want to fly. Maybe we will see some servers like F 86 + F8F vs k4 nad D9, so just simply do not connect to the server and be happy on the other one.

If you want contemporary fighter you take P51D and 109G14. G14 is still a month newer version than p51D.

Come on Solty...

The first G14 was operational in July 1944....

The first Bf-109K4 was in August of 1944....

Every Bf-109 air-frame, including the G14's that was salvageable after being stricken off charge was turned into a Bf-109G10 which is nothing more than a Bf-109 reworked to Bf-109K4 standards.

Your quibbling over 30 days. We got a late war Mustang with the K14 and tail warning warning radar.

Hopefully we can get G-suits in the USAAF fighters so we can pull an extra G over everyone else....muuu ha ha ha!!! :joystick:

F86 vs K4 is a little bit too much. On the other hand P 51 vs Me 262 should be ok. But none will be ever forced to fly anything which simply do not want to fly. Maybe we will see some servers like F 86 + F8F vs k4 nad D9, so just simply do not connect to the server and be happy on the other one.

Here's the problem, the P51D (as in game, at current power setting) is forced to fight plane that it historically never fought, by the time the K4 and the D9 was operational, the whole 8th air force's already switched to 150 octane fuel running 75"hg. Hell, even with 100/130 octane fuel, the P51D was permitted to run at 70"hg.

Come on Solty...

 

The first G14 was operational in July 1944....

 

The first Bf-109K4 was in August of 1944....

 

Every Bf-109 air-frame, including the G14's that was salvageable after being stricken off charge was turned into a Bf-109G10 which is nothing more than a Bf-109 reworked to Bf-109K4 standards.

 

Your quibbling over 30 days. We got a late war Mustang with the K14 and tail warning warning radar.

 

Hopefully we can get G-suits in the USAAF fighters so we can pull an extra G over everyone else....muuu ha ha ha!!! :joystick:

Yeah, how many K4 and D9 were fitted with Gyro gun sights in 1944? In fact, were combat operational K4s and D9s even fitted with gyro gunsight at all?

German fighters werent better for most part. LoL. The K4 is last resort plane. The P-51 and 47 were dominating sky in 43 and44. Your knowledge is limited.

Do your homework!

By testreviews and specification german planes were at least equal most of the time. The reason air superiority was lost to the allies was due to

- allies outnumbered germany in production and pilots

- young german pilots were not well trained and fell like flies

- comand structures had to manage a 24h defense scenario where allied forces at least had a night to rest.

- shortage of (higher grade) fuel

That all left aside, where is the point to have a balanced scenario?

Why are you insisting that for winning you need an equal or superior fighter?

I don´t get it ...:helpsmilie:

Do your homework!

By testreviews and specification german planes were at least equal most of the time. The reason air superiority was lost to the allies was due to

- allies outnumbered germany in production and pilots

- young german pilots were not well trained and fell like flies

- comand structures had to manage a 24h defense scenario where allied forces at least had a night to rest.

 

That all left aside, where is the point to have a balanced scenario?

Why are you insisting that for winning you need a equal or superior fighter?

I don´t get it ...:helpsmilie:

A little bit OT:

Yeah, you probably wanna read a little bit on planes performance if you still assume that German planes were superior.

The P51D with 150 octane fuel matched the best late war German propeller fighters in performance, while still had at least 3 times more endurance.

And if you wanna dig deeper, there were the P51F and G, which were the actual contemporary of the D9 and K4, and would make the best late war German propeller fighters feel.....inadequate ;)

And the shortage of higher rate fuel were substituted with MW 50, and late war C3 fuel had higher octane rating than Allies 150 octane fuel at rich mixture.

I do not get all the fuss - any mw boosted 109 will be better in one on one dogfight in dcs conditions, imho the g-14 would be even better at lower altitudes, and the g-14/AS practically the same as our current early k-4. There were plenty of 109K to find in the air, they were not rare by anyone's standard..

In multi plane combat and team tactics these manaouvre advatages of the 109 diminish in importance quickly... So Use this to Your advatage as real P-51D pilots did..

forced to fight plane that it historically never fought, by the time the K4 and the D9 was operational, the whole 8th air force's already switched to 150 octane fuel running 75"hg.

OK, P-51D's as modeled were the historic opponent of the Bf-109K4 and FW-109D9 as modeled.

The entire rest of the USAAF did NOT use 100/150 grade including the 9th USAAF who were responsible the tactical airforce for the USAAF in the ETO.

They used 100/130 grade throughout the war.

In other words, there is nothing unrealistic or not historical about the planeset.

The EZ 42 was produced in significant numbers and used in Bf-109's and FW-109's.

Just be glad you have devs that research their own facts instead of just regurgitating pulp history.

OK, P-51D's as modeled were the historic opponent of the Bf-109K4 and FW-109D9 as modeled.

 

The entire rest of the USAAF did NOT use 100/150 grade including the 9th USAAF who were responsible the tactical airforce for the USAAF in the ETO.

Yeah, were the 9th Air force actually equipped with the version of the Mustang that we currently have in game?

And like I've asked, were the D9 and the K4 actually equipped with the EZ 42 sight (in any significant number) in 1944?

imho the g-14 would be even better at lower altitudes

Better, eh?

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109G14_May44trials/109G14_GLCE-may44_trials.html

g-14/AS practically the same as our current early k-4

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109G14_PBLeistungen/Leistungen_g14u4_am-asm.html

How much speed do you think the gondolas shaved off the G14? 50km/h?

We also are going to have normandy map which is part of their area of operations.

The trainbuster campaign to prepare the invasion site was spearheaded by the 9th USAAF. Most of our fights in the game are at low altitude around the tactical environment.