The Rookie Thread

The vikhr is a beam-rider. No commands are transmitted to it from the launching aircraft whatsoever, nor does the launching aircraft track the missile.

 

You're thinking of TOW.

 

IR = Flares

Radar = Chaff

Laser = (nothing?)

 

For laser guided missiles there are two types: command-guided and seeking. Command-guided means that the launching platform is steering the missile. This is how Vikhr works. Seeking means the missile is homing on laser energy hitting the target. This is how Hellfire works.

#3 Also why do i get a warning when i fly too fast? 30 on airspeed indicator?

 

Because you are flying too fast ;)

Flying too fast can cause rotor collision among other unwanted aerodynamic effects associated with helicopters.

 

 

#4 why Missile warning system with laser jammer, self protection system mode of operation select has no function? is this BS real limitation or game limitation?

 

Thanks.

 

It is not implemented on real production Ka-50. It is there for 'future growth' and is/was implemented on some prototypes.

Because you are flying too fast ;)

Flying too fast can cause rotor collision among other unwanted aerodynamic effects associated with helicopters.

 

 

 

 

It is not implemented on real production Ka-50. It is there for 'future growth' and is/was implemented on some prototypes.

 

 

Thanks GGtharos, i know i was going too fast but i thought i might have forgotten to turn something on and that was why i had warnings.

 

Then again, if i'm hovering and saw a missile coming toward me, i feel that the BS is very hard to maneuver and leave the area immediately. It takes time for it to gain speed or am i missing something?

It takes time for anything to gain speed.

Your best defense against a laser guided missile is to create as much perpendicular movement to its flightpath as possible, assuming that you cannot hide.

It takes time for anything to gain speed.

Your best defense against a laser guided missile is to create as much perpendicular movement to its flightpath as possible, assuming that you cannot hide.

 

by perpendicular you mean go up higher or down lower?

Man i love this game, best sim ever. Every day i'm learning something. I hope next one will be Apache, please.

I mean to the side.

 

You want to make those missiles turn (unlike air to air missiles, anti-tank missiles usually don't turn so well).

The next DCS sim is A-10C.

Thanks GGTharos. Tell ED that i had a dream last night flying apache.

Whenever I have apache-flying dreams one thing is a recurring theme: I find myself wanting my ABRIS back. :D

You mean the monocle with in-your-face-don't-need-to-look-anywhere-but-where-I'm-going-hmd-cues doesn't do it for you? :D

 

Whenever I have apache-flying dreams one thing is a recurring theme: I find myself wanting my ABRIS back. :D

No, I want a moving map! It's sooooo sexy. :P

 

Have to say though, in my dreams I do own with the look-and-shoot cannon. :D

in my dreams i don't use shkval to lock targets i use GS lol. Whatever ED can get as close to BS i will be happy.

The vikhr is a beam-rider. No commands are transmitted to it from the launching aircraft whatsoever, nor does the launching aircraft track the missile.

 

You're thinking of TOW.

 

Vikhr is effectively command-guided. The beam combined with the logic and sensors on the Vikhr are supplying guidance inputs. The launching platform is telling the Vikhr where to go.

 

Differential engines control handles

1# What is it for? i know when i start up the engine i have to click on PageUp twice but what happens/what is the benefit of clicking the PageUp three times?

 

2# The collective, why do i keep getting a warning (Rotor RPM warning push-light) if i pull up on the collective too much?

 

#3 Also why do i get a warning when i fly too fast? 30 on airspeed indicator?

#4 why Missile warning system with laser jammer, self protection system mode of operation select has no function? is this BS real limitation or game limitation?

 

1#, the fourth position of the throttle is emergency which allows the engine to run harder than normal, usually used if one engine fails.

 

2#, the automatic throttle increases (or decreases) power when the rotor RPM drops (or rises) toward the normal limits. The power turbine takes a while to change power levels so a fast increase in load (collective = drag as well as lift) will slow the main rotors below the normal limit.

Rockets

 

Thank you all for the wonderful tips.

 

I have locked a target in my shkval which is 7km away from BS. What is the best possible approach to hit this target with smoke rocket from 7km distance? how do i calculate my pitch? to accurately hit the target with a smoke rocket?

Edited June 2, 2010 by InFireBaptize

It is a beam rider. There's a reason why CLOS and beam-rider systems are named differently ;) It's not 'command guided' anything.

 

Vikhr is effectively command-guided. The beam combined with the logic and sensors on the Vikhr are supplying guidance inputs. The launching platform is telling the Vikhr where to go.

Thank you all for the wonderful tips.

 

I have locked a target in my shkval which is 7km away from BS. What is the best possible approach to hit this target with smoke rocket from 7km distance? how do i calculate my pitch? to accurately hit the target with a smoke rocket?

 

 

Smokeys are S-8TsM's, AFAIK, and are generally useful to 3km, and they are unguided.

I have not used them yet, so I could need clarification on range and possible approach.

I posted in mission editor tips thread, but alas, no response, so ill post here.:music_whistling:

Some questions about editor. What do you have to do to make a plane refuel? Can you have a plane automatically refuel when it runs low? How do you make a plane escort another, (as one flight). All i can manage to do so far, is to set another identical route, but that doesn't work so well.

:helpsmilie::helpsmilie::helpsmilie::helpsmilie:

another noob reporting in

 

Heya. RAMjb here. Spanish, 32 y o. First flight emulator (I can't call "that" a simulator given the computers of the time, hehe, thankfully for I was just a kid), was Spitfire 40. For Amstrad CPC, circa 1986. And avid consumer of most flight simulators since then, in both Amstrad CPC and PC (when I got my hands in one)platforms.

 

Even while I gave Gunship 2000 a big use, that was my last chopper sim for a long while. Been flying mostly fixed wings stuff (more exactly WW2 stuff as my favorite plane is the Fw190) for 99% of the time.

 

I have to say that I was taken aback by BS. I was really intimidated by it. I knew it was going to be a difficult transition from fixed wing to rotary wing. Then there was the copy protection issue (I really hate systems such as Starforce, with a passion). And finally I had no HOTAS and for me it was plain to see that if I was to enjoy the transition I needed it.

 

In the end the deciding factors were a series of promo clips I saw on youtube, signed by Glowing Amraam (guy does as a hobby. Many professionals wish they could do an editing job as his). I simply felt the need to give it a try, regardless of the Starforce issue (been on the watch on that aswell and the general lack of problems with SF I've seen related with BS was also a deciding factor). Purchasing a HOTAS was more or less a must for my activity on IL2 and other flight sims, so I gave the step.

 

So after months since it's release I purchased a copy last Saturday, when I also purchased a X-52 FCS HOTAS. And boy I have to say I wasn't turned down: the darned chopper is as hard as I expected to fly. If not hardest. MUCH hardest :D. I've got fixed wing aircraft insticts developed after years of flying them virtually, and those are a killer in a chopper. After days of banging my head against the screen I finally got to understand, for instance, that "chasing the ball" was to be done more with the cyclic than with the rudders, and that correcting sideslips needs cyclic bank, not just rudder yaw. And that is just ONE instance. My initial instincts when I wanted to slow down or accelerate also produced some hillarious results. All my turns ended in the most unco-ordinated slipping when facing the new direction (product of underusing the rudder for not understanding the whole concept well). Other things as trim, however, I got and understood really fast (just needed to see the producer notes video about it). Not so with the autopilots, tho.

 

After some days of crash after crash and reading a lot of internet stuff, most of it here, and looking for youtube clips for some tips on how to get a feel of the chopper (and quite some iterations on the shooting range mission, of course), I'm slowly improving. I can't do any fancy stuff like hammerheads, but at least I can land. No, really. For me the worse issues were related with transitions, and particularily with transitions to hovering without immediate use of autohover. Sideslips were a killer, I always tried to adjust with rudder and I would find myself slipping and yawing for no result. :lol:

So if transitions into hover are a pain, and I had problems adjusting for sliding, landings were more something like "hard encounters with earth". At its best.

 

Today, just a few minutes ago, I completed the 1st campaign 1st mission succesfully. Landing and turnind the chopper off included. For me is a huge sensation of accomplishment, because I was able to actually stay within 200m of the lead chopper for the whole of the mission (have to admit, I cheated twice because I lost vis on him while operating the ABRIS or the INS system, and used external views to relocate it.). I found no problem following him in turns and speed changes. I was even able to intuitivelly close up or slow down a bit to let it go (as a good fixed wing sim pilot I'll let you guess how I was trying to slow down at first :lol:) if I was lagging or getting too near.

 

And finally I got to land at the FARP. I mean, a "small" (hey ,for me is very small!) square with an H in the middle and not a long runway with a really big parking zone to land almost anywhere I was able to finally force myself into a hover -my standard landing way until now-.

 

Truth be told, it didn't go without problems. When doing the circuitto the FARP I slowed down to almost a hover to turn around the helicopter using rudders only, to then do the final approach at very slow advance/descent rate. Somehow I lost track of my collective and found myself in one of those nasty "vortex falls" or however it's called. I was at some 200m radar altitude at the moment my helicopter turned into a falling brick, and I thought I had blown the whole mission in the last minute, But I reacted fast ,dropped the nose almost instantly, and gained enough speed to increase collective and not smacking myself in the ground by, dunno, maybe 10 or 20 m. Then I did a proper approach and landing.

 

Yes, all I did was to take off, follow a darned chopper around for some 40 minutes (hearing him talk about land reference points and not looking at any because I was too busy following him, LMAO) and then almost smack myself when trying to land. But hell I DID not smack myself, and I did land and turned the chopper off.

 

I feel very very well. A nice rewarding sensation. I certainly expected this sim to deliver, but boy does it do it even more than what I expected!!!

 

Have to say a couple things. First of all a big THANK YOU to everyone who has posted in this thread. I've read through all of it and understood a lot of things I was doing wrong because of the info posted here.

 

Second of all: There should be a bigger emphasis to warn newcomers as me that switching Heading Autopilot off while you're in hover and rotating to face a new direction (to then engage it in that new direction) makes things MUCH easier (you don't have to fight the darned AP trying to bring the chopper nose back to where it was). I read it somewhere, think it was even here, but its a point that rarely is brought up. In fact I think my worse problem with the chopper until today was that I really didn't understand all that well how each of the three autopilot works, and that sometimes switching one of the three compensators off for a short while (usually the heading one) really help you doing what you want...

 

 

So...well, hello, thanks for reading this brick of a post, and thank you all for your inputs here!. I'm a long way from being a decent "virtual pilot" of this little monster of a chopper, but certainly I'm much much closer than when I first started it :megalol:

Edited June 8, 2010 by RAMjb

Great!.. welcome here RAMjb :):)

Hey RAMjb,

 

just a tip : read up on the "autopilot"-channels. The autopilot in the KA50 is not like an autopilot in a fixed-wing aircraft. There are a lot of posts about this subject on this fine forum. And don't worry : every beginner has a hard time getting his head around the autopilot/trim-system.

What I do to change heading : press and hold the trim-button, perform the heading change through co-ordinated use of cyclic and rudders, and when facing the desired heading and controls are centered, only then release the trim-button.

Please also read the "Maneuvering the KA-50"-section (page 10-34 and following) from the manual.

It all starts with understanding how the thing works and how you as a pilot need to use it to get it to do what you want. Like I said before : the trim-system is definately different from a fixed wing aircraft.

Have fun.

Hey bengo.

 

Yep, I already gave it some re-reads, that's how I came up with the idea of turning the Heading channel off for when swiveling the chopper in a hover. I do understand how it works...now. There are a lot of "little tricks" to deal with the autopilot. Is one of the best things about the chopper, but can be a killer if you don't understand it well.

 

I've already tried the "Trim-and-turn-release-trim-later" thing. I already do that. But in combat it might be a killer: Problem is that if by any kind of accident I release the trim button in an inappropiate moment (and in combat it might happen because you're thinking on another different thing), then you'll find yourself spinning around for a good while until you can recover control (if you don't crash before).

 

Happened to me twice while I was trying some extreme turns in the shooting range and it didn't look pretty thereafter. To re-trim the helicopter (if you don't go down first, that is), turns to be a nightmare, and if that is going to happen in front of the enemy, I'm going to kill them...with a laugh attack.

 

I'm toying with the idea of using Flight Director mode for the times I want total control of the chopper (such as rocket&guns boresight passes, combat turns, tight reversals, etc). Much simpler than keeping a button permanently pushed down.

 

Also don't know if turning off all the autopilot channels is a smart thing to do when you just want to keep autohover on and sviwel for, say, 80 degrees to starboard. By pushing trim you're disconnecting the autopilot and you might get out of the hover without noticing it at first, losing vital time later to recover the hover. I find it much easier to simply disable the H channel, swivel around, and reengage it in the desired direction.

Edited June 8, 2010 by RAMjb

...the idea of turning the Heading channel off for when swiveling the chopper in a hover.

Ugh. I read this "suggestion" all the time and it is a poor one. This leads to learning bad habits that will make it even harder for you to really understand the Black Shark autopilot and Trimmer later.

 

To re-trim the helicopter (if you don't go down first, that is), turns to be a nightmare, and if that is going to happen in front of the enemy, I'm going to kill them...with a laugh attack.

All the more reason to spend time on learning how the system really works instead of memorizing workarounds.

 

 

Just my $0.02USD, but I suggest that you:

 

1. Turn all four AP channels AND the Flight Director on. Leave them on all the time while you learn how the Trimmer works. It's not intuitive and takes some practice.

2. Fly often with Flight Director on. Learn how to use the Trimmer in all flight maneuvers - takeoff, acceleration, cruise, turns, climb, descent, deceleration, hover, etc. Note how it affects your rudder pedals and cyclic during manuevers. Practice "Trimmer Tapping" as well as release-and-hold. See which works best for you.

3. Once comfortable with 2., turn Flight Director off to enable autopilot feedback. Practice the same flight manuevers in 2.

4. Now starting turning on "modes" (auto turn to target, route, auto hover, etc.) and experiment again with the Trimmer methods.

 

Step 2 is the longest and hardest step but with the most payoff.

 

Welcome to the Black Shark, and good luck!

Ugh. I read this "suggestion" all the time and it is a poor one. This leads to learning bad habits that will make it even harder for you to really understand the Black Shark autopilot and Trimmer later.

 

hm. I do understand the AP and trimmer by now. The AP will try to keep the attitude you trimmed in, using up to 20% of the control input the pilot has.

 

Because of that if I'm in an autohover (or a manual hover) and I want to use rudder to swivel my helicopter to face a new direction I actually have to fight against the autopilot giving an order against mine's. If I'm in a hover facing north and want to swivel to heading 135 while on hover, if I don't disengage the heading channel (be it manually, be it via pressing the trim button and releasing it in the new direction), I will be trying to turn the chopper around while the autopilot tries to counter my wishes. Autopilot is there to help me, not to fight me. So I disengage the involved channel and reengage on the new facing. Easy, simple, and forces the AP to help me, not to fight against me.

 

By disengaging the heading channel and reengaging it in the new direction I not only make the move a much smoother one (not being forced to fight against an autopilot input that will try to pull the nose back to its initial heading), but I'm using the autopilot to my advantage (by engaging it in the new direction I want to face, the autopilot tries to keep that direction after re-engaged thus helping me) while not being forced to disengage the other two channels which already are properly trimmed and balanced for a hover (something that happens if you press trim while swiveling to release it in the new direction. If those channels are trimmed and working why mess with them pressing the trim button if I don't really need to?).

 

So by dis-and-re-engaging the heading channel I'm already making the Autopilot help me instead of fighting against me. I won't call that a "workaround",but operating the helicopter's autopilot to the best of my advantages...but I guess we all have our little tricks, "to do" and "not to do" things in our way of flying the chopper :)

Edited June 9, 2010 by RAMjb

RAMjb,

This talk should end like "Normal Operational Procedures does not allow disengaging AP channels, period!" :)

 

Essentials first, babbling later:

 

____________________

 

small adjustment in heading => "fight" the AP | stabilize at new heading | TRIM *

 

bigger adjustment e.g. from HDG 360 to HDG 200 (left) => [start changing heading using left rudder at constant rate ("turning speed")] | [TRIM => AP will maintain this turning] | [stop the rotation (turning) using right rudder] | [TRIM => AP will maintain the new heading]

 

___________________

 

I took only yaw in a hover into consideration but this applies to all channels/attitudes. AP holds either a heading OR a heading change (turning) rate * depending on how steady the helicopter was when pilot pressed and released the trim button the last time. If pilot pressed and released the trim button while changing heading at 15 deg/s rate and then let go of controls AP will maintain this movement.

 

Another example of the second AP hold functionality ("rate hold") - when I do a wide turn I enter the turn and TRIM. Hands off the stick and the turn is executed automatically! Only minor corrections are usually needed during such "automatic turn" and they are done by adjusting using cyclic and rudder (wait a second for the heli to stabilize at adjusted turn) and a quick TRIM.

 

Such turn is useful even when you brake from the enemy AAA when spotted at reasonable distance! You brake, hold the turn, TRIM and you have your turn executed by AP. You don't want to fly smooth as AP flies even if you placed the AAA at your 3 o'clock? No problem. Jerk the controls around a little to induce some craziness to the flight path.

 

The reason why you probably feel you're fighting the AP is that when you decide you want to change your heading in a hover you push rudder pedal and let go for a moment or you do it in unsteady manner. You can consider AP as a sneaky bustard that just waits for you to let go of your control a little to do whatever HE pleases. Just don't let go. This is very hard to achieve using rudder twist on joystick handle.

 

* press and release the trim button quickly

** refer to the flight manual and the recent patches changelogs

 

P.S. If I'm wrong at any point please correct it ASAP.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Bucic

 

Another example of the second AP hold functionality ("rate hold").

 

Now, THIS is something I didn't know. I knew that by trimming in a turn it would keep said turn (because it keeps the controls centered in the attitude you selected when releasing trim button), but didn't see the implications for swiveling in a hover. And certainly with a "Rate of turn" (in this case, rate of yaw) functionality, yep, there's no reason to turn off the heading channel off once I've adjusted myself to it.

 

Lol, yeet one more thing to practice and get used to. Sheesh!...I love this! :D

 

thanks a lot ,Bucic, for that information. Is something I wasn't aware off and certainly gives me a new insight into the AP of the helicopter! :D

It was added in 1.01, >3° per second heading change rate is captured instead of the heading itself when trim is released.