My New Cyclic Build with Magnetic Brake Trim - Page 7 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-22-2017, 07:55 AM   #61
molevitch
Member
 
molevitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London UK
Posts: 282
Default

Hi Bunkaiotoko,

Yes, the wiring pipe is definitely 20mm. If you use that as a scale on the diagram, everything else will follow.
__________________
Scan 3XS Performance 7 GTX PC, Overclocked Intel Core i7 6700K, 16GB Corsair DDR4, NVIDIA GTX 1070, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD, Win 10.
Oculus Rift CV1, custom Mi-24 cyclic and collective.

Mi-24 Cyclic and Collective with Magnetic Brakes and Force Feedback
Mag Brake in operation
molevitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2017, 12:30 PM   #62
bunkaiotoko
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Japan
Posts: 8
Default

Thank you Molevitch
Thanks to you, I can start production of collective which is nearer to a genuine article!
bunkaiotoko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 06:48 PM   #63
ruso
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: España
Posts: 58
Default

Hi, first of all, great work. I was involved in a similar project, but I abandoned it. Now his seems very interesting to me.
Some issues.
What do you use the relay for?
Will not you apply the magnetic brake system to the pedals?
How has the system of "neutral" settled to the cyclical trim?
Does the magnetism of the brakes not affect hall sensors or potentiometers?
Greetings and delighted to read your project.
ruso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 01:00 PM   #64
molevitch
Member
 
molevitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London UK
Posts: 282
Default Reply to Ruso

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruso View Post
Hi, first of all, great work. I was involved in a similar project, but I abandoned it. Now his seems very interesting to me.
Some issues.
Hi Ruso, thanks for the compliments! It has been a learning project for me, with several dead-ends, left over components, frustrations and rewards.

Quote:
What do you use the relay for?
The relay switch is used to reverse the effect of a PTM (Push-to-make) switch. The Russian original Trimmer button on the cyclic and in fact the Collective Brake button on the collective are both PTM. The Electro-magnets are live, to hold the cyclic and collective at trimmer set positions In order to momentarily switch off the electro-mags by pusjhing either the trimmer or the coll-brake button a relay is used in each circuit to break the 112v supply to the magnets. I have a circuit diagram somewhere earlier in this thread #39.

Quote:
Will not you apply the magnetic brake system to the pedals?
The pedals should be free really. There is a thought to do it anyway, but it will add a third electro-mag circuit, and another button, and I don't think I really need it. I have BRD pedals which can be either free or self centring. I currently use them self centring.

Quote:
How has the system of "neutral" settled to the cyclical trim?
The cyclic is "centred" where you want it, but pure upright is set at the start up, so there is no influence on the choppers pitch/roll. As I start to fly I can put the stick where I want, and let go. I can fly in good weather (no or marginal wind) pretty much hands off.

I am about to try some softer springs in my force gradients. The ones I used originally are a bit too stiff, making fine control amazing but more aggressive movement hard work without releasing the trim brake, which is not always desirable.

Quote:
Does the magnetism of the brakes not affect hall sensors or potentiometers?
Potentiometers are fine, but I had problems with setting up Halls. BUT I think the Halls are bad/inappropriate for the use. So I plan to order some Allegros as recommended by Thadiun Okona and try when I have time. Work got really busy suddenly. (Curse real life!)

Quote:
Greetings and delighted to read your project.
Glad you like it! Post yours, I would like to see how you get on.

Mole
__________________
Scan 3XS Performance 7 GTX PC, Overclocked Intel Core i7 6700K, 16GB Corsair DDR4, NVIDIA GTX 1070, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD, Win 10.
Oculus Rift CV1, custom Mi-24 cyclic and collective.

Mi-24 Cyclic and Collective with Magnetic Brakes and Force Feedback
Mag Brake in operation
molevitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 12:52 PM   #65
molevitch
Member
 
molevitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London UK
Posts: 282
Default

Just ordered a bunch of A1324 Halls as I am not happy with the Edtracker.... Its USB plug socket just failed! Gonna reconfigure my cyclic with a pair of Halls using slide past sensing. And I can add all that without a major rebuild. In fact, they can be easily surface mounted onto the existing gimbal structure.

Also reducing the strength of the springs in my force gradients, as the current ones are just to much hard work....

Pics will follow in a few days.
__________________
Scan 3XS Performance 7 GTX PC, Overclocked Intel Core i7 6700K, 16GB Corsair DDR4, NVIDIA GTX 1070, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD, Win 10.
Oculus Rift CV1, custom Mi-24 cyclic and collective.

Mi-24 Cyclic and Collective with Magnetic Brakes and Force Feedback
Mag Brake in operation
molevitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2017, 08:36 PM   #66
FIN_Centurion1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 48
Default

This is the best thing I've seen in a while, beats my MK1 helicopter controls out of the water

I got my Oculus rift CV1 a couple of weeks ago and my sim flying has gone up by like 50 times, currently mostly running warbirds (in war thunder because 90fps at all times) but want to get back to the helo game in DCS, and currently researching a more serious home cockpit build with more feel - tried my mates Thrustmaster pedals and they just dont cut it. I feel I still don't understand how your mag brakes work really, but I'll get there I'm just a bit dull

My biggest dilemma is how to make some multipurpose cockpit that would be good for fixed wing and rotary, I understand I need a collective and throttle unit separately ofcourse but I want to have a stick and pedals that work reasonably for both. So that is a bit of thinking required item.

I also want to integrate some more feel into the controls, preferably by using oil shocks or some similar.

Gonna try to sketch up something in CAD tomorrow - try to formulate a working design and get a parts list etc...


Anyway, thanks for the inspiration you provide!
FIN_Centurion1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 09:57 AM   #67
molevitch
Member
 
molevitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London UK
Posts: 282
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIN_Centurion1 View Post
This is the best thing I've seen in a while, beats my MK1 helicopter controls out of the water

I got my Oculus rift CV1 a couple of weeks ago and my sim flying has gone up by like 50 times, currently mostly running warbirds (in war thunder because 90fps at all times) but want to get back to the helo game in DCS, and currently researching a more serious home cockpit build with more feel - tried my mates Thrustmaster pedals and they just dont cut it. I feel I still don't understand how your mag brakes work really, but I'll get there I'm just a bit dull

My biggest dilemma is how to make some multipurpose cockpit that would be good for fixed wing and rotary, I understand I need a collective and throttle unit separately ofcourse but I want to have a stick and pedals that work reasonably for both. So that is a bit of thinking required item.

I also want to integrate some more feel into the controls, preferably by using oil shocks or some similar.

Gonna try to sketch up something in CAD tomorrow - try to formulate a working design and get a parts list etc...


Anyway, thanks for the inspiration you provide!
Hi FIN_Centurion1,

Thanks for the words, give me some rep why dont you?

I can explain the mag brakes better if you want. I have been really busy with work for 2-3 weeks, long days and deadlines. I had planned to do a proper explanation when I realised how many were interested, but had no time and was mostly interested in getting it to work for flying!
Basically I was looking for a relatively easy build as I don't have access to light industrial machinery! I found inspiration from a couple of other builders and figured out some ways to incorporate some of their methods. In a couple of weeks I will have time to put a better build description together with drawings and pics etc, though not blueprints by any stretch! I tend to work on a "found this spring, make it fit, will it work, yes, no, keep hunting" basis, though I do make little non-scale plans in sketch-books.
Basically, the electro-mags hold the cyclic stick in position, and the springs on the "force-gradients" allow for some play. It gives very fine control in a chopper sim. So you can centre the stick and it stays there, a bit like any spring loaded self centring stick. But with the mags, I can reposition that centre offset by degrees in any direction. So it is trimmed. I can literally set it, and even hover in one place, HANDS OFF! (no wind obviously).

If I knew how to, I would make one of those PIP videos showing it all together, the mechanics, the controller (me) and the results on screen. But I have not yet learned how to do that....
__________________
Scan 3XS Performance 7 GTX PC, Overclocked Intel Core i7 6700K, 16GB Corsair DDR4, NVIDIA GTX 1070, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD, Win 10.
Oculus Rift CV1, custom Mi-24 cyclic and collective.

Mi-24 Cyclic and Collective with Magnetic Brakes and Force Feedback
Mag Brake in operation
molevitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2017, 10:39 AM   #68
molevitch
Member
 
molevitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London UK
Posts: 282
Default Final results

My Mi-24 Cyclic and Collective Pit is pretty much finished, in as much as it is now flyable with great results.

The handbrake works. Pull the lever and the cable pulls a spring loaded lever onto a PTM momentary button. I built a small box containing all the parts and the cable goes into that. The box is strapped to the base of the stick and concealed by the leather boot. I will make a drawing of the box interior and post it later.


The mechanics of the mag-brakes etc are now covered from the front and top. The leather boot is made from an old scrap of leather, eyeletted and laced up. It protects all the Hall sensors and cables from accidental contact from anything falling in or brushing against them.

Hall sensors mounted into aluminium channels and attached to the gimbal for the pitch axis and to the roll axis mount for the roll axis. 5mm neodymium magnets are set into small blocks of black ABS plastic, glued onto the base of the cyclic stick for pitch and the back wall of the gimbal box for roll.


So there we are. I cannot quite believe how sensitive the controls are. Even the twitchy Gazelle is relatively easy to fly now. The Huey and the Mi-8 are a real joy. The trimming is excellent, allowing almost hands-off cruising, and certainly allows for other cockpit activities, switch use etc. Very happy, and very smug!
__________________
Scan 3XS Performance 7 GTX PC, Overclocked Intel Core i7 6700K, 16GB Corsair DDR4, NVIDIA GTX 1070, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD, Win 10.
Oculus Rift CV1, custom Mi-24 cyclic and collective.

Mi-24 Cyclic and Collective with Magnetic Brakes and Force Feedback
Mag Brake in operation
molevitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2017, 10:49 AM   #69
FragBum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: QLD, AUS.
Posts: 1,388
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by molevitch View Post
Hi Ruso, thanks for the compliments! ,..
Indeed nice work.


Quote:
The pedals should be free really.
Yes and?

Quote:
I currently use them self centring.

Mole

No. Why?

__________________
Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors.

Last edited by FragBum; 09-02-2017 at 11:52 AM. Reason: Formating
FragBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2017, 08:52 PM   #70
molevitch
Member
 
molevitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London UK
Posts: 282
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FragBum View Post
Indeed nice work.




Yes and?




No. Why?

Oh, I just like it that way. Its a very gentle spring...
__________________
Scan 3XS Performance 7 GTX PC, Overclocked Intel Core i7 6700K, 16GB Corsair DDR4, NVIDIA GTX 1070, 240GB SSD, 2TB HDD, Win 10.
Oculus Rift CV1, custom Mi-24 cyclic and collective.

Mi-24 Cyclic and Collective with Magnetic Brakes and Force Feedback
Mag Brake in operation
molevitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:01 PM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.