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Old 12-19-2016, 12:47 AM   #1
Krupi
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Default Spitfire Cockpit - Boxfire/Spitbox/Ottospit...

Hello Chaps,

As you can hopefully tell I am currently working on a foldaway Spitfire Cockpit


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I will be starting work on the actual frame tomorrow however I have been very slowly working on the innards over the past few months.







Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced pictures of the throttle so I will have to take some again...


Kudos to Troll for his fabulous Simbox which inspired me "aka I stole is idea..."

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?t=1953
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:47 AM   #2
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I have been pondering one of my biggest issues in recreating a 1:1 replica Spitfire Control Column and that is how to dampen/load it

At present I am looking at around ~15lbf for the elevators and ~30lbf for the ailerons however this is subject to change (There was a marked difference in the real aircraft which is why I want to mimic it).




The elevators force above should be fairly simple to replicate, I was looking at something like this...

http://www.slamproof.co.uk/epages/BT...tion_Cylinders

However replicating the aileron force will not be so easy...

Currently I am thinking along the lines of one of these....

http://www.slamproof.co.uk/epages/BT...Rotary_Dampers

Which would attach to the gearbox at the end of the column (The part which attaches to the fuselage.. see images below).





However the rotary damper could leave me with a 5% slip (No resistance from the rotary damper at the start) & an expensive design, so if you chaps could steer me in another direction/solution that would be very much appreciated!
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Project IX Cockpit

Last edited by Krupi; 12-19-2016 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:48 AM   #3
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I have been trying to crack on with this project between cooking, drinking & flying the spit of course

When it comes to tools I don't always have the right stuff so workarounds have to be employed as the image below shows...



But it works out okay in the end



I could not put off the biggest job any longer and final finished the gearbox assembly, which actually went very smoothly.







Tomorrow I will attach the pedals to the frame & start to build the box

Thanks to draken152 for inspirational use of aluminium profiles in his mind blowing Dora Cockpit
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Last edited by Krupi; 12-28-2016 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:48 AM   #4
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PLACEHOLDER 3
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:15 AM   #5
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Love the design and intention to this bud. Good luck with the build!
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:37 AM   #6
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Another WW2 bird, perfect. Good luck man...Haven’t you build Fw190d cockpit in the past???
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:57 AM   #7
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Hi Krupi,

your concept looks good I think. On the elevator you can go for a much cheaper damping solution. Search for motorcycle steering dampers on ebay. They are adjustable, have no backlash, have smooth operation and are cheap.

On the aileron the rotary damper is great. Unfortunately the quality ones are expensive. The cheaper ones are usually for lids and forniture doors, and not for precise mechanical components.

ACE controls have quite a few types, maybe they have some without backlash.
http://www.acecontrols.com/

In my setup Im using DEB rotaries. They are great but very expensive. I found mine on ebay for peanuts though.
http://www.debmfg.com/Aerospace-Equipment.html

Regarding loads:

Your concept to have twice the load on the aileron compared to the elevator might be right for the Spit, but it is very uncoventional and ergonomically unconfy. Usually it is the other way around. Simply because the human arm is much weaker for lateral moves than for pulling and pushing. As I know Supermarine went that way as well and increased the control loads on the elevator after the mark V and on.

30lbs is a lot for a constant aileron load, you might want to reconsider. Lower loads will also allow you to apply smaller and cheaper damper.

In real aircraft the control loads are changing all the time with the airspeed. Making controls with constant high loads are unrealistic and compromise precision inputs. In my experience low loads with plenty damping is the way to go.
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:17 AM   #8
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Thanks chaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by draken152 View Post
Another WW2 bird, perfect. Good luck man...Haven’t you build Fw190d cockpit in the past???
Unfortunately I have no space for my 190 pit and I wasn't willing to compromise on the design, so it is on pause

Quote:
Originally Posted by VO101_MMaister View Post
Hi Krupi,

your concept looks good I think. On the elevator you can go for a much cheaper damping solution. Search for motorcycle steering dampers on ebay. They are adjustable, have no backlash, have smooth operation and are cheap.

On the aileron the rotary damper is great. Unfortunately the quality ones are expensive. The cheaper ones are usually for lids and forniture doors, and not for precise mechanical components.

ACE controls have quite a few types, maybe they have some without backlash.
http://www.acecontrols.com/

In my setup Im using DEB rotaries. They are great but very expensive. I found mine on ebay for peanuts though.
http://www.debmfg.com/Aerospace-Equipment.html
I knew I had forgotten to give someone else a kudos, I stole the idea of using a rotary damper from your design so Kudos to you MMaister

I don't suppose you happen to have a spare DEB rotary!

I was actually looking at a motorcycle steering damper for the ailerons why did I not think of using one for the elevator!

So to clarify one of these...



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-CNC-...YAAOSwKtlWjhUK

For the elevator. Unfortunately I do not know what size of force they can dampen?

How about one of these for the aileron forces?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/C201-Steerin...-/302059265633

I would adapt a plate to fit on the gearbox so it would move with the elevator and a pin coming off the control column


Quote:
Originally Posted by VO101_MMaister View Post
Regarding loads:

Your concept to have twice the load on the aileron compared to the elevator might be right for the Spit, but it is very uncoventional and ergonomically unconfy. Usually it is the other way around. Simply because the human arm is much weaker for lateral moves than for pulling and pushing. As I know Supermarine went that way as well and increased the control loads on the elevator after the mark V and on.

30lbs is a lot for a constant aileron load, you might want to reconsider. Lower loads will also allow you to apply smaller and cheaper damper.

In real aircraft the control loads are changing all the time with the airspeed. Making controls with constant high loads are unrealistic and compromise precision inputs. In my experience low loads with plenty damping is the way to go.
I have been pondering what to do, do I mimic a high speed scenario or a low speed... regardless of which I want the difference in the two controls to be represented.
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Last edited by Krupi; 12-19-2016 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:32 PM   #9
VO101_MMaister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krupi View Post

I knew I had forgotten to give someone else a kudos, I stole the idea of using a rotary damper from your design so Kudos to you MMaister
It is my pleasure if my project gave some inspiration to others


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krupi View Post

I don't suppose you happen to have a spare DEB rotary!
Actually I might have a 1pc around Let me have a look at my inventory, and I will send you a pm about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krupi View Post
For the elevator. Unfortunately I do not know what size of force they can dampen?
I don`t have exact info about it, but it has a very wide range. It will fit well I think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krupi View Post
How about one of these for the aileron forces?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C201-Steerin...-/302059265633

I would adapt a plate to fit on the gearbox so it would move with the elevator and a pin coming off the control column
I don`t know it, but it is probably worth a try. Actually I bought quite a few stuff just for testing when I built. Some parts turned out to be great like the dampers, but some were useless.
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krupi View Post
Kudos to Troll for his fabulous Simbox which inspired me "aka I stole is idea..."
He calls himself 'Goblin' on these boards...

Seriously cool idea, Krupi! Looking forward to see how this will turn out!
I have made some adjustments to my seat, and rebuilt the SimBox for VR use...
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