ED implemented laser guided rockets

The JF-17 module brings own laser guided BRM-1 90 mm laser guided rockets, that works greatly. You are not 100% accurate so you can miss targets. But they are little off now as others do not get theirs rockets for the mission designers wishes.

The AV-8B Harrier should get APKWS that is the own kind laser guided 2.75" rockets, but AFAIK the Razbam is not yet made their minds that do they implement them or ED.

https://www.baesystems.com/en/multimedia/apkws--laser-guided-rocket-video

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Precision_Kill_Weapon_System

But already 12 years ago there were few posts as well about Russian (presented and demoed 1997-2000) "Ugroza" system, again getting S-5Kor, S-8Kor and S-13Kor designation. And reports says that Iraq has taken those in service in 2008-2010 time period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugroza

http://www.missiles.ru/S-8KOR.htm

All three systems uses the standard rocket pods, and can be launched by any platform that can launch their corresponding standard "non-guided" rockets without any hardware or software modifications, but the target needs to be painted with laser designator and get rocket nose pointed at the general direction to it find it and guide to it after launch.

These rockets would be Mission Designer own decision to be offered/used and open up new more modern combat mission possibilities.

Would as well be nice if ED would implement automatic system where setting the date for mission in Mission Editor, would automatically exclude all weapons and aircrafts (and vehicles) from the list of choices to be added to mission. This way mission designers needs to carefully consider what is their mission date to get their wanted systems in use (hence, no F/A-18C hornet in mission dated to 1984).

Would as well be nice if ED would implement automatic system where setting the date for mission in Mission Editor, would automatically exclude all weapons and aircrafts (and vehicles) from the list of choices to be added to mission. This way mission designers needs to carefully consider what is their mission date to get their wanted systems in use (hence, no F/A-18C hornet in mission dated to 1984).

Would be good as an option, but shouldn't really be automatically forced on. We don't have a complete library of units, so using stands in is something that needs to be considered (just ie pre 84 the USN had a lot more than F-14's and 18's, you wouldn't be able to have a realistic force anyway).

Additionally you also cut out hypothetical situations or perhaps weapon test scenarios, which are great for the NTTR map.

Would be good as an option, but shouldn't really be automatically forced on.

Sure, an option of course.

As currently the game encyclopedia lacks many informations, and one of those really is that when the unit was developed. It would help a lot in mission editing if there would be some kind ways to automatically filter some units or get the lists that what are the dates of them in use.

It is like the common Wikipedia problem, you can have example almost all T-55 variants listed in there, but you just can't find any information about the years of development. So you are completely going for to other sources to hunt the small details.

Like example these requested laser guided rockets are just such, that some might be experimental in given time, and some are developed and manufactured only much later on. So you could easily just get them included if wanted, if possible or not at all.

As if some say that DCS is about combat aviation sandbox etc, or study sim etc, then we as well need weapons that are experimenta, developed but not sold or used, just to make those study scenarios as well sandbox missions.

On that I agree, this feature would be helpful for many things in the ME.

I believe that the Kiowa is getting APKWS so that could open the door for implementation into other modules down the road as well.

ALso, the Jeff guided rockets are great but still not realistic as it is not supposed to beam ride. My understanding is that it's an engine limitation so I'm sure there's more work to be done on the backend to fully implement guided rockets.

I'm curious how similar or different the in-game coding and functionality would be between the APKWS rocket guidance (laser spot homing) and the AGM65E laser guided Mavericks.

Seems they operate on the same principle, which is different from the "beam-riding" Jeff rockets and the 'Shark's Vikhrs.

Right? Anyone know more about this? I'm sure I'm missing something crucial.

I'm curious how similar or different the in-game coding and functionality would be between the APKWS rocket guidance (laser spot homing) and the AGM65E laser guided Mavericks.

 

Seems they operate on the same principle, which is different from the "beam-riding" Jeff rockets and the 'Shark's Vikhrs.

 

Right? Anyone know more about this? I'm sure I'm missing something crucial.

There is big difference between those two in real life, but if KA-50 and Su-25T with Vikhr doesn't simulate the laser beam shaping (funneling) when guiding Vikhr by narrowing the beam over time and increasing power over time, then there is a problem.

The Shkval-M system is designed so that it tries to keep a 7 meter diameter laser beam at the Vikhr missile position. This is calculated by the time of launch by knowing the average Vikhr speed.

The laser power is as well controlled so that power is increased slightly by the time, when the beam gets narrower, and so on when the missile is further.

This does make the system very jam-proof because missile has the laser code seekers at the rear, looking the four-split laser beam (like a cross) codes and detecting when it is in each zone, rotating wildly around its axis to get it steered through all the zone and keep doing the quick rotation until it finds itself to be at the center of the beam by going through all the zones (AFAIK, the beam should have a center zone with own unique ID so Vikhr knows it is at the center) and then just keep the proportional navigation rule intact = laser beam stays steady).

Now if this is modeled, then there is big difference between a helicopter that is fairly steady, and fast moving fighter, as the laser beam source moves relative to aircraft, while steady relative to the target. And so on missile (and in this case the rocket) needs to fly chasing the laser beam.

But as the seeker in the BRM-1 rockets is in the frontal hemisphere, just like with all those laser guided rockets, their seeker search the laser dot (about 30-50 cm in diameter depending your distance with the laser designator) that is easy to do as the seeker glass passes through only that spectrum of the light. And then rocket needs to just lock on the laser that flickers at the programmed pattern (laser code).

So the rocket (or missile, bomb etc) is completely free to fly/drop anywhere, but only task is to get again the proportional navigation so that the dot they see, stays steady by angular rate in their navigation system = they are heading directly toward it.

Here is fairly good presentation of the math behind the basic guidance laws for it, using another game engine:

Fri13 - Thanks for that explanation! I have a better sense of what 'beam-riding' means now, and it's really interesting how the missile/rocket 'looks backwards' for guidance.

That covers one part of my question, and I appreciate it.

Does anyone know if the APKWS laser seeker behaves/operates differently from the LMAV laser seeker guidance?

It seems to me they are fundamentally the same, and therefore coding is a task of adaptation rather than build-from-scratch.

Related note: KIOWA WHEN? I'm ready!

The JF-17 module brings own laser guided BRM-1 90 mm laser guided rockets, that works greatly. You are not 100% accurate so you can miss targets. But they are little off now as others do not get theirs rockets for the mission designers wishes.

 

The AV-8B Harrier should get APKWS that is the own kind laser guided 2.75" rockets, but AFAIK the Razbam is not yet made their minds that do they implement them or ED.

https://www.baesystems.com/en/multimedia/apkws--laser-guided-rocket-video

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Precision_Kill_Weapon_System

 

But already 12 years ago there were few posts as well about Russian (presented and demoed 1997-2000) "Ugroza" system, again getting S-5Kor, S-8Kor and S-13Kor designation. And reports says that Iraq has taken those in service in 2008-2010 time period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugroza

http://www.missiles.ru/S-8KOR.htm

 

All three systems uses the standard rocket pods, and can be launched by any platform that can launch their corresponding standard "non-guided" rockets without any hardware or software modifications, but the target needs to be painted with laser designator and get rocket nose pointed at the general direction to it find it and guide to it after launch.

 

These rockets would be Mission Designer own decision to be offered/used and open up new more modern combat mission possibilities.

 

Would as well be nice if ED would implement automatic system where setting the date for mission in Mission Editor, would automatically exclude all weapons and aircrafts (and vehicles) from the list of choices to be added to mission. This way mission designers needs to carefully consider what is their mission date to get their wanted systems in use (hence, no F/A-18C hornet in mission dated to 1984).

apkws is too recent to expect for the timeframe respective harrier and F18 aircraft being simulated. APKWS didn't reach IOC until 2012 with the usmc ( and even then it was on helos initially) , it was only began trials in 2013 for fixed wing aircraft , but not received operationally until 2017 for the av8b harrier. In turn it wasn't integrated with USMC Hornets until about 2018.

Maybe if ED A10C warthog 2.0 is going to be recent enough of a software suite in a 2013+ timeframe they might add it for that.

apkws is too recent to expect for the timeframe respective harrier and F18 aircraft being simulated.

 

Maybe if ED A10C warthog 2.0 is going to be recent enough of a software suite in a 2013+ timeframe they might add it for that.

Doesn't matter.

Firstly....

DCS is a combat simulator, a combat sandbox.

DCS allows us to simulate even modern day.

Go ahead, try.

You can input your mission to be even in the future!

There is no timeframe in DCS! There is nothing limiting or denying that what it can simulate.

Want to simulate a scenario where USA bankrupted itself instead Soviet Union in 1982, and was forced to cancel all weapons developments as companies went bankruptcy and aircrafts like F/A-18C never became, but Soviet Union developed Su-27S, while USA flies with F-4 Phantom II's (future module to come)?

Completely possible!

It is mission designer who can pull whatever imagery allows with the history etc, using the models and objects there is in DCS!

Secondly,

APKWS and others DOES NOT REQUIRE MODIFICATIONS!

No modifications to launchers.

No modifications to wiring.

No modifications to computers.

No modifications to software.

No modifications of anykind!

The only thing that is required to have is these with APKWS:

1) Weapons crews will pick container of any standard rocket.

2) weapons crews will in preparation unscrew the warhead from rocket booster, pick up a new guidance module that is screwed between warhead and rocket booster. Making rocket longer by the guidance module length.

3) set the laser code in each seeker module by hand, before loading them to standard rocket launcher pod. Just like with laser guided bombs etc.

4) Inform the pilot for the laser codes, that will input it to their aircraft laser designator system to be used. Just like with any other laser guided bomb etc.

5) Fly their mission normally, except now laser designator can be used for targeting, and firing rockets at the general direction of the designated targets like they would be normal rockets.

After the launch, laser seeker activates, finds the laser spot and starts guidance autonomously toward it.

There is not any kind connection between platform, designator and the rockets.

Without any modifications, you can load those rockets to any platform, any standard rocket pod. As long you can launch a standard "dumb rocket", you are good to launch laser guided one.

It is pilot task to get designation to target by any means, and aim the rocket at that general direction by the limits of seeker FOV.

Su-25A can launch laser guided S-5, S-8 or S-13 rockets without any modifications. It is just like launching S-25L rocket or Kh-25L/ML.

Only difference is that pilot selects the smaller caliber rocket to be launched.

The same thing is sith KA-50 or MiG-29 or even use L-39ZA with S-5 rockets with third party laser designation.

With APKWS, all platforms that can carry standard 2.75" rocket pods can carry them and launch those.

A-10A can be used.

A-10C, Harrier, anything.

The only requirement for that should be is that the mission date is set properly, so that weapons would be properly by known history to be available.

But as well allow alternatives so one can example take F/A-18C to year 1972 and fight against new MiG-21Bis, just as much as take MiG-21Bis from air museum and fly it against F/A-18C in 2005!

It would be mission designer own decision what weapons to include available.....

Fri, there is not a timeframe for the game, no, but.there IS for the aircraft. They're a certain model from a certain timeframe, and as such have or don't have certain things. That's his point.

...and the return point is that a Harrier airframe from 2007, if still flying "today" without any subsequent modifications, could still mount and use the APKWS weapon system.

It's just the ordnance and employment procedure, there's no avionics or additional hardware or software involved.

Perhaps this quality is rather unique to the APKWS, and unlike other weapons. If a new version of a 500lb-class dumb bomb came out, would it have different flight/trajectory characteristics and need an update to the CCIP/CCRP software? Maybe, I don't know.

But APKWS does not. Load it on any platform able to mount Hydras and it will work. In real life, there's testing, procedures development, training, and integrating into doctrine. DCS doesn't model or require any of that.

So the question is up to the mission maker to answer "Is this weapon loadout available for this mission?"

Not really any different from choosing between AIM9L or AIM9M, AIM120B or AIM120C.

Build a mission in 1944 and place F-14s in it. Does it work?

Fri, there is not a timeframe for the game, no, but.there IS for the aircraft. They're a certain model from a certain timeframe, and as such have or don't have certain things. That's his point.

Ammunition and aircraft are two separate things.

Doesn't matter.

 

Firstly....

DCS is a combat simulator, a combat sandbox.

DCS allows us to simulate even modern day.

Go ahead, try.

You can input your mission to be even in the future!

 

There is no timeframe in DCS! There is nothing limiting or denying that what it can simulate.

 

Want to simulate a scenario where USA bankrupted itself instead Soviet Union in 1982, and was forced to cancel all weapons developments as companies went bankruptcy and aircrafts like F/A-18C never became, but Soviet Union developed Su-27S, while USA flies with F-4 Phantom II's (future module to come)?

Completely possible!

 

It is mission designer who can pull whatever imagery allows with the history etc, using the models and objects there is in DCS!

 

Secondly,

APKWS and others DOES NOT REQUIRE MODIFICATIONS!

 

No modifications to launchers.

No modifications to wiring.

No modifications to computers.

No modifications to software.

 

No modifications of anykind!

 

The only thing that is required to have is these with APKWS:

 

1) Weapons crews will pick container of any standard rocket.

2) weapons crews will in preparation unscrew the warhead from rocket booster, pick up a new guidance module that is screwed between warhead and rocket booster. Making rocket longer by the guidance module length.

3) set the laser code in each seeker module by hand, before loading them to standard rocket launcher pod. Just like with laser guided bombs etc.

4) Inform the pilot for the laser codes, that will input it to their aircraft laser designator system to be used. Just like with any other laser guided bomb etc.

5) Fly their mission normally, except now laser designator can be used for targeting, and firing rockets at the general direction of the designated targets like they would be normal rockets.

 

After the launch, laser seeker activates, finds the laser spot and starts guidance autonomously toward it.

 

 

There is not any kind connection between platform, designator and the rockets.

Without any modifications, you can load those rockets to any platform, any standard rocket pod. As long you can launch a standard "dumb rocket", you are good to launch laser guided one.

It is pilot task to get designation to target by any means, and aim the rocket at that general direction by the limits of seeker FOV.

 

Su-25A can launch laser guided S-5, S-8 or S-13 rockets without any modifications. It is just like launching S-25L rocket or Kh-25L/ML.

Only difference is that pilot selects the smaller caliber rocket to be launched.

The same thing is sith KA-50 or MiG-29 or even use L-39ZA with S-5 rockets with third party laser designation.

 

With APKWS, all platforms that can carry standard 2.75" rocket pods can carry them and launch those.

 

A-10A can be used.

A-10C, Harrier, anything.

 

The only requirement for that should be is that the mission date is set properly, so that weapons would be properly by known history to be available.

But as well allow alternatives so one can example take F/A-18C to year 1972 and fight against new MiG-21Bis, just as much as take MiG-21Bis from air museum and fly it against F/A-18C in 2005!

 

It would be mission designer own decision what weapons to include available.....

It doesn't matter how simple APKWS integration is. To simulate weapons you need to know for example its symology for the MFD pages, and the various HUD indicators, and various weapons procedures specific not only for the weapon type but how its used on that specific platform. Just because we can understand based on general knowledge of how the weapon works and similarities to other laser guided munitions should not be reason to implement it on any aircraft. This is not World of Warplanes.

IF this was the case we would have JASSM for the F16C because its "similar" enough in role and function to AGM84 SLAM ER on the Hornet but we don't.

Hate to break it to you but unless the developers get a Tactical/ weapons manual for each specific aircraft with a recent enough publication(s) when APKWS was introduced that documents all the aforementioned bits from the prior paragraph your unlikely to ever see them on the aircraft you want.

Fri, there is not a timeframe for the game, no, but.there IS for the aircraft. They're a certain model from a certain timeframe, and as such have or don't have certain things. That's his point.

^

This thank you.

It doesnt matter how simple APKWS integration based on your beliefs. To simulate weapons you need to know for example its seismology for the MFD pages, and the various HUD, and weapons procedures specific not only for the weapon type but how its used on that specific platform.

There is nothing to be made there.

What is difficulty to understand in No Software Modifications Required?

It is identical as you would use any hydra rockets as you are using those same hydra rockets with or without guidance!

That is the whole point of the whole APKWS system! ANY system that is capable launch 2.75" rockets can launch them!

There is nothing to be made there.

 

What is difficulty to understand in No Software Modifications Required?

 

It is identical as you would use any hydra rockets as you are using those same hydra rockets with or without guidance!

 

That is the whole point of the whole APKWS system! ANY system that is capable launch 2.75" rockets can launch them!

It doesn't matter if it doesn't require software modifications

IF you yourself are incapable of describing how exactly information and symoblogy is presented via MFD, HUD, etc and utilization of already existing targeting pod laser designation for guidance and the exact weapons procedures for the APKWS with the level detail you find in a manual, then you can't seriously expect it to be simulated.

This is exactly why the devs have not done APKWS. IT's not pertains to the era of aircraft they are simulating ( irregardless if it doesn't need modifications) and because more importantly ain't happening unless theyve get a recent enough documentation on hows its used on specific platforms to simulate it.

Its not hard to understand why devs have not done it any current modules. SO deal with IT!

IF you yourself are incapable of describing how exactly information and symoblogy is presented via MFD, HUD, etc and utilization of already existing targeting pod laser designation for guidance and the exact weapons procedures for the APKWS with the level detail you find in a manual, then you can't seriously expect it to be simulated.

First, it is identical as you would launch any Hydra rockets.

Secondly, your laser designation is exactly same as using any method you use otherwise.

There is nothing difference to use them, than you or someone else can designate target before launch.

So set your laser designator On and launch rockets just like now.

Only difference is that now your rockets are guided to laser spot.

No HUD changes, no MFCD pages, nothing.

You can try all this already.

Jump to hornet or harrier, load some 2.75" rockets pods and Litening.

1) You fly to target

2) you target it with Litening

3) you fire the laser

4) select your rockets and aim at the general direction at the normal rocket launch range.

5) launch rockets

Nothing else. Now your rockets fly and impact to position where your reticle was as those are "dumb rockets".

But if ground crew would have inserted APKWS modules to those very same rockets you just launched, they would have guided to your designated target with litening!

Nothing is different than how you can do it now, except now your rockets are not guided so your laser designation is waste of time for other than you seeing where the target is on HUD and on map etc.

That is the beauty of the APKWS and Ugroza, all are compatible with it.

If you can launch a rocket, you can launch those. It is identical to the pilot!

If there is laser designation with proper code on target, those rockets will guide in there.

This is exactly why the devs have not done APKWS. IT's not pertains to the era of aircraft they are simulating ( irregardless if it doesn't need modifications) and because more importantly ain't happening unless theyve get a recent enough documentation on hows its used on specific platforms to simulate it.

Its not hard to understand why devs have not done it any current modules. SO deal with IT!

with the level detail you find in a manual, then you can't seriously expect it to be simulated.

So does ED have manuals for the AIM-120C-5? No? Okay, let's remove that from the game.

Does ED have manual for AIM-9? Any of series? No? Okay, let's remove that from the game.

Does ED have manual for a R-27ER? Any R-27? No? Okay, let's remove that from the game.

Want to continue?

If ED has information how any Hydra rockets fly, then they can simulate the APKWS.

If ED has information how any S-5, S-8 or S-13 fly, then they can simulate the Ugroza.

There are photographs, there are videos, there are information how those look, what are the diameters, and what are the capabilities. Just at the same level as any other weapon in the DCS itself already!

This is exactly why the devs have not done APKWS. IT's not pertains to the era of aircraft they are simulating ( irregardless if it doesn't need modifications)

You just don't get it.

Aircraft and weapons are two completely different things!

Does developers need to simulate R-60 missile separately for each module? No, because ED does it! On the moment when the missile gets animated and simulated to launch, the missile goes from ED own 3D model or studios own 3D model to ED own missile modeling. As ED does the missiles and ED runs the simulation from the launch.

AIM-54 was trouble for Heatblur because ED had not done that missile.

Ironworks has trouble with BRM-1 because ED has not done that rocket.

Polychop made Mistral missiles, again something mythical in their performance.

Each time the developers has made their own missiles, they had had trouble and when ED has finally corrected them and made them, they works far better.

Now it is time again that Razbam is waiting ED to make APKWS so they can get it, and Polychop has already made their own APKWS versions for their upcoming Kiowa.

https://youtu.be/mgmx7EtlfPs?t=4594

Just like today, and given example, you can put your F-14B to fly in 1944 among that era fighters and play it as you want.

You can even use AIM-54 there if you so want. NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU!

You can take your A-8 and fly it in the 2024 if you so want, but don't expect to carry any missiles or targeting pods etc.

These new rockets are just that, new guidance section to existing rockets. If you could have time machine and travel back to Vietnam era

aPXh0SpQU6w

https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/apkws-laser-guided-rocket

Requires no modifications to the standard rocket motor, firing platform or fire control system

Requires no modifications to the platform, the rocket, or the

fire control/launcher system and minimal training

for the crew

There are always of course others too, like Raytheon Talon that has as well been taken in service, and it has as well same requirements (read: none):

TALON requires no hardware or software modifications to the launcher or aircraft platform and can be fired from any aircraft that fires 2.75-inch Hydra-70 unguided rockets using the standard M260/261 launchers.

What you need to understand is that these likely acquire a license to be modeled or at least called in, just like any other weapon. So it would help a lot if ED does it so all studios can just add it to aircraft loadouts inventory if those modules are capable carry standard rocket pods.

And that is exactly the ED's job, not so that every third party will model and simulate every possible weapon there is for their module, otherwise you have different AIM-120C for each aircraft or different Mk.82 bomb etc.

and because more importantly ain't happening unless theyve get a recent enough documentation on hows its used on specific platforms to simulate it.

How to use it?

JUST LIKE ANY OTHER HYDRA ROCKET!

There is nothing special to it! You select rockets, you launch them at the wanted direction and they go BOOM!

If you want to guide them, you get the laser designator firing on wanted target and you launch those rockets to its direction and they go BOOM on the target.

There is zero difference to launch guided or unguided version of the hydra rocket!

[quot€]Its not hard to understand why devs have not done it any current modules. SO deal with IT!

Yeah, "deal with it". It is hard to understand that you don't understand what why it is required that ED does it, because every platform is capable to launch those weapons in the time frame that are past the time when they have been manufactured.

For Ugroza it is anything past 1999 and APKWS it is anything past 2012.

Here is your difficult part:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/8/8e/Hydro_70_APKWS_II_conversion_MAWTS-1_WTI_2018-03-28.webm/Hydro_70_APKWS_II_conversion_MAWTS-1_WTI_2018-03-28.webm.480p.vp9.webm

https://www.nammo.com/globalassets/pdfs/product-sheets/warhead--fuzes/brochure-70mm-mpp-warhead.pdf

The "minimal training" is that the pilots are just trained to launch rockets in their parameters as so far (like the APKWS has 40 degree FOV, over 14km laser detection capability, capable to spot the laser at least 3 km from the target) and remember that laser guidance is there as requirement if wanted to be pinpoint accurate, otherwise it is like any dumb rocket.

So the requirements are for you:

1) Do you know how to use targeting pod?

2) Do you know how to set the laser code in target pod?

3) Do you know how to fire laser on target?

4) Do you know how to launch FFAR?

Good! Now you know how to use APKWS as an pilot!

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/hydra-70-rocket-system-us/

It is all about mission designers decision what weapons to include for the mission. If someone wants to go with AIM-120 to the WW2 era, go for it.

But that ain't different from using a 2012 rocket in a F/A-18C Lot 20 in mission designed to happen in 2020!

You can't make AIM-120C-5 to work in a F-14B!

You can't take a R-27ER and make it work in MiG-21Bis!

Why? Because there are technical limitations for that!

But with these laser guided rockets, there is no technical limitations, but only the time era. Just like F/A-18C Lot 20 didn't exist in 1975!

Harrier AV-8B II

F/A-18C

F-16C

UH-1H

etc etc etc

Are all compatible and capable to carry, launch and use APKWS rockets.

Some are capable to guide them by themselves by having capability designate targets with laser by themselves, but some are not and so on requires JTAC or some other third party to do it for them!

Same thing is with Ugroza, Su-25A, Su-25T, KA-50 can do it by themselves. Mi-8MTv2, MiG-19P, Su-27S, MiG-29's etc requires someone else.

Want to fly a current historical future war? Then you design your own missions so you are there with the aircrafts that you would be really flying (meaning for RedFor it is only the JF-17 as no other aircraft would be up in the air, as we don't have so modern aircrafts) but that is just for you. If you want to drift away from that reality, you can go and put MiG-19P or why not even MiG-15Bis to "Museum Relic" missions.

Your argument about that aircraft X didn't come with the APKWS etc at the year they are modeled is false, because all these weapons are backward compatible, only limitation is that if you could go back in time to year when those aircrafts were taken in service with these rockets, you could be using those back in that time.

But maybe you are a player who only creates the mission for that specific year and date when those specific aircrafts you fly were taken in service, no earlier or no past that. So you never fly Su-27S against F/A-18C, never F/A-18C against F-16C, never see F-14B go against some others etc.

Because you want to be super realistic by the time era fitting the aircrafts to each others and their weapons to each others, right?

For the future, it would be better that ED has done all these rockets, because it makes it more accurate and fair that everyone using those can be sure that there ain't different versions from different studios.

Im totally with Fri13 on this, its silly to me that laser guided rockets are not on the ED and some 3rd party air frames that actually use them...:music_whistling:

IF the rocket is compatible with any airframe that can shoot a certain rocket, it doesnt matter what time frame the weapon can be loaded on. If you can pull an F-4 out of a museum, and its qualified to shoot said rocket pods, then the laser guided rockets should be implemented.

We can all get into loud arguments about this but at the end of the day, it is ED that holds the final say and perhaps we should MAYBE consider that they may have their own reasons to not include such weapons. Perhaps it does simply come down to only using weapons that are available on a very, very specific airframe during a very specific timeframe but maybe it goes beyond that. Maybe ED was simply not able to get the minimum amount of documentation that they require to feel comfortable implementing such a thing. Perhaps they were told that such weapons would be a no go for them as part of their relationship with Boeing and the like.

It is easy for us to say "it would be easy! Why don't they just do it already!" but there may be more to it than simply ED not giving you what you want for the fun of it.

Today's dev stream hosted by the Kiowa developer showcased (among other things) APKWS weapons employment, with community streamers as pilots.

Laser designate and release weapon.

My thinking in earlier posts in this thread was whether there are any technical or coding obstacles to including this specific weapon/guidance system in current DCS. I didn't (and don't) think so, but I'm always interested in the knowledge of this community and an opportunity to learn.

Seeing that a 3rd party developer has included this in the module confirms that there is no software reason preventing its use.

I won't speculate as to if or why ED would choose to include or reject it; I have no knowledge of ED's decision making.

But if they decide to make it available to compatible/approved aircraft, it seems they can.

I'm looking forward to using this in the Kiowa. Should be fun.

Rant removed

Yor the one who doesn't get it. Believe what you want. Your can put a spin on things and rationalize your desires for such a weapon all you want.

And yes whilst ED may not have performance diagrams for more modern A2A weapons like AIm9X or Aim120C5, they almost certainly would have at least have have tactical or weapons delivery ( USN and USAF respectfully) manuals for written and illustrated procedures of weapons operations for specific aircraft. You wouldn't have such an accurate simulation purely on seeing couple of few second cockpit go pro video stills.

Just because you logically assume it works like any laser guided munition isn't a good enough reason to have it. Even for such a simple weapon you see how many years APKWS has been in development, and how many years it was being tested in controlled environments before it is actually adopted for use.

2012 is not the universal adoption date for all platforms with APKWS as you implied . Just like 2007 F16C viper has JHMCS, but not an F15E strike eagles until a few years later.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/apkws-ii-hellfire-jr-hydra-rockets-enter-sdd-phase-02193/

IN 2012 it was only operationally used on AH1W super cobra and the UH1y Venom.

2016 for A10C integration and deployment.

2017 for av8b integration and 2018 before USMC legacy hornets are cleared to use.

You know why ED is not gonna make APKWS even if it is easy to estimate its procedures? None of the current platforms use them at the timeframe they are being represented.

DCS F16C is a 2007, and DCS F/A18C Lot 20 is circa 2005-07 aircraft. Even Razbams Av8b harrier is not a post 2010 aircraft.

Like i Said, maybe A10C 2.0 might have it if its a recent enough software suite ( from maybe 2016-ish when APKWS comes around for it) we might see APKWS on that specific platform. This is the best hope. IF you want to be in denial go ahead., or you can choose to accept reality and stop promoting anachronistic weapons for simulation of a specific timeframe of aircraft.

Otherwise keep calm, stop ranting, and learn to manage your expectations.

IF the rocket is compatible with any airframe that can shoot a certain rocket, it doesnt matter what time frame the weapon can be loaded on. If you can pull an F-4 out of a museum, and its qualified to shoot said rocket pods, then the laser guided rockets should be implemented.

Its not a simple as that. Nothing is slapped on without first being testing, and a official manual being revised to document new procedures for new integrated weapons so other pilots can be taught how to use it.

Using such line of reasoning to justify any weapon is a quite a slippery slope to getting totally speculative fiction genre of loadouts.