Landing the Hip

I'd be too embarrassed. I use a TM Warthog stick and throttle.

 

I take the stick and sit it on the chair between my legs.

 

I did mod the warthog stick and removed the main spring and relocated the smaller springs to the top. That helped a LOT.

 

I do have a stick extension I haven't tried yet. I may give that a shot and go with a more permanent mount on the floor.

 

 

Oh, sorry...I didn't watch the thread carefully enough. I meant the setup of Elysian Angel with the Puma controls.

 

 

The Warthog is something I still consider buying (actually I'm using TM T-Flight Hotas X) and I'd also remove or replace the spring. An extension might make sense. I'm just wondering if you have to mount the Worthag on the floor if you use an extension? Or does it have enough stand?

 

 

Even tough a controller like the Puma would be awesome for helo, I wonder about the space it needs. And where to place the other controls in case you also wants to fly a jet every now and then (the F-14 might be of interest to me).

 

 

If I'd be super rich, I'd probably simply have a big room with 4 places (working/gaming PC, helo cockpit, jet cockpit, racing cockpit) ;-) But this won't happen.

 

 

Looks like we went pretty off-topic now... ;-)

I have a home-made floor mount for my Warthog with extensions. Takes me 30 seconds to swap it with Komodo cyclic. So it really doesn't take up that much room. Before I got the Komodo, I too made the spring

. It only takes 15 min or so and is quite easy. It really makes flying helo's much much better. But to add to others, having a collective that's long makes a world of difference as well. Also, Warthog extenders (Sahaj, Milan MFG's of the world) come in various lengths. So you can get the height that you need. Oh, and when I added the extension that you see in the picture below, I reversed the spring mod back to the way it was. With the longer throw, the spring tension is about the same as warthog w/o the extension + spring mod. Hope that answers some of your question. (since the picture, I painted the extensions with matte black spray paint.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the foldable shelf for the collective. It shows the cyclic in the background. The warthog throttle (not shown in the picture) is just above the shelf holding the collective.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by hansangb

That's pretty cool. I'm simply not that much of a craftsman to do such things. I simply have my cheap TM controller/Hotas on the desk along with the Logitech G25 steering wheel (the console of the shifter gives me many additional buttons). Doesn't look great but it's functional.

That's pretty cool. I'm simply not that much of a craftsman to do such things. I simply have my cheap TM controller/Hotas on the desk along with the Logitech G25 steering wheel (the console of the shifter gives me many additional buttons). Doesn't look great but it's functional.

 

 

Honestly, it's not much work - a few scrap 2x4"s etc. But have you looked at Virpil? While they make control sticks, they also make a desktop mount that you can clip onto most desks. It may be a good fit as it supports Warthog TM sticks.

 

 

I believe MonsterTech.de has mounts as well for the stick and throttle.

 

(and few others)

Thanks for the info. They both have some nice stuff. It's always a matter of money - or "how much money do you want to spend for your hobby" ;-)

 

But if you have to spend some hundred dollar for the Warthog and some hundred dollars for the mounts, then you can already start thinking of getting the Puma controller set.

 

However, those desk mounts are interesting.

...Do observe his seating position (seems a bit higher than game) and at what point he is looking out of the window...

I think that the camera is positioned over his head. Maybe that's why he looks like sitting higher... ?

I think that the camera is positioned over his head. Maybe that's why he looks like sitting higher... ?

 

Exactly, it's on his helmet

I think the viewpoint is low (presumably to catch the panel in the FOV). It seems to me that if you look across at your co-pilot, his head is higher than your view point, and if you swap seats, the same is true looking back the other way.

I have a CH Products, Fighter Stick, Pro Throttle and Rudder Pedals. Helo's are very difficult to control.

 

Will someone please explain which Trimmer Mode you have selected under the Special Options, and your procedure for trimming? I have searched YouTube videos on how to trim and hover the Mi-8, but really haven't found much help.

 

I have found that it is extremely difficult to hover the Mi-8, and nearly impossible to sling-load with my setup.

I'm using Standard Trim (and rudder trimming because I use my racing pedals). So as soon as I pressed the trim button on the stick, I release pedals and stick.

 

 

I'm not aware of the CH products, but IMO the Mi-8 is easier to hover than e.g. the Huey. Especially due to the slow speed indicators. If the CH controls are not that "accurate" (?) then you might indeed consider a slight curvature. Or if the joystick isn't accurate arond the central position, then maybe even a slight dead zone.

 

 

I always had troubles to hover/sling load with the Huey, but I have no problem with the Mi-8. Just make sure you get close to a hover. Trim the stick. Check your instruments. Still going slightly forward? Slightly move the stick back and trim again, and so on until you're in a complete (or almost complete hover). From then on, only slightly push/pull the stick shortly to give the chopper the "direction". It should stop in the hover again. I always have to slightly adjust the collective.

 

 

Also make sure that you're facing toward the wind. HTH.

I have a CH Products, Fighter Stick, Pro Throttle and Rudder Pedals. Helo's are very difficult to control.

 

Will someone please explain which Trimmer Mode you have selected under the Special Options, and your procedure for trimming? I have searched YouTube videos on how to trim and hover the Mi-8, but really haven't found much help.

 

I have found that it is extremely difficult to hover the Mi-8, and nearly impossible to sling-load with my setup.

 

Upload a track we can look at perhaps? May be able to provide some pointers.

Dunno whether these will help or not

 

 

 

Leave the trim to default and trim in small steps. It is difficult with a short stick and a stiff spring will also be detrimental to your ability to hold things steady. Keep practising and don't be afraid to come back with any questions:)

 

Good luck

I think that the camera is positioned over his head. Maybe that's why he looks like sitting higher... ?

bummer. I didn't account for this.

 

I have a CH Products, Fighter Stick, Pro Throttle and Rudder Pedals. Helo's are very difficult to control.

 

Are you facing jitter issues with ch pro throttle?

 

Are you facing jitter issues with ch pro throttle?

 

 

Thanks guys for the various help, videos and suggestions. I have alternated using the Pro Throttle and the Thumb Wheel on the Fighterstick as collective. I think that the Thumb Wheel is more precise. Maybe a bit of jitter with the Pro Throttle.

 

However, the main problem is that I cant get the helicopter stable in a hover. It is all over the place.

 

I will upload a Track when I have a chance.

The Mi-8 is definitely tricky to land. Fargo007 made some good points!

 

About trim and axis curves : this heavily depends on the setup you have. I learned to fly with the TM Warthog, even though it is far from ideal for helicopters. About a week ago I got myself a Pro Flight Trainer Puma for helicopter flying, and that makes a ton of difference :)

I still use the Warthog for flying fixed wing aircraft, but the Puma was a game changer for me: it takes a lot of getting used to but that setup is made for flying helicopters: I no longer have to trim, and use negative axis curves now for optimal results :)

 

 

Yeah, I made the same experience except for the curves. With negative axis curves, I had quite some problem to do sling loads (I'm still not perfect on that with the Puma). But aside that, landing is great with this setup.

 

 

Like you said, it takes a while to get used to it. Biggest issue I often have is that I often pull the stick too far back by thinking it's in the middle now - which it isn't. So I lose too much speed in too short time.

An idea for those who find hovering after an approach a challenge: cancel trim. This will mean the controls are always in the same place when hovering. May not work for all, but I find it helps.

When I am flying the Mi-8 on the 104th server, its combat flying...I dont like being a sitting duck on a one mile approach waiting for the thing to come down nice and slow.

 

If landing at a FARP, I come in low and fast...as I overfly my landing spot...hard left turn 360 while dumping collective and using cyclic and slight collective adjustment to control descent rate, trying to get low into ground effect altitude by the 180...by the time I am at the 270 I am usually sitting pretty as I increase collective and level out into hover. Then I inch it down the last few feet.

 

Using TM Warthog stick and throttle, no extensions no curves.

Could be interesting to see a video of that ;-)

If landing at a FARP, I come in low and fast...as I overfly my landing spot...hard left turn 360 while dumping collective and using cyclic and slight collective adjustment to control descent rate, trying to get low into ground effect altitude by the 180...by the time I am at the 270 I am usually sitting pretty as I increase collective and level out into hover. Then I inch it down the last few feet.

 

Interesting, I need to try that, thanks!

Well, also had to try it out. IMO it's quite hard to find out how sharp to do the turn to end up in a hover close to the LZ. But here's my attempt:

 

 

 

Was this more or less what you meant?

Well, the Mi-8 is meant to be flown gently, not like an agile attack helicopter.

 

Killing speed with very low collective pitch will bring the engine RPM down to minimum. Then passing 50-70km/h lift is lost drastically, which requires a quick increase in rotor pitch. The engines - being in the low power regimes - can't "keep up" with the torque demand which leads to a blade stall and either a hard landing or a crash.

That's the nice thing with a sim though...you can try out stuff you wouldn't do in reality.

Well, the Mi-8 is meant to be flown gently, not like an agile attack helicopter.

 

Killing speed with very low collective pitch will bring the engine RPM down to minimum. Then passing 50-70km/h lift is lost drastically, which requires a quick increase in rotor pitch. The engines - being in the low power regimes - can't "keep up" with the torque demand which leads to a blade stall and either a hard landing or a crash.

 

Not true. Engine RPM is constant in a helicopter. There's no reason why you can't suddenly add lots of power, and the only time you'll get a blade stall is if you enter VRS.

Not sure how accurate/realistic DCS because I never flew a real helicopter. In my attempts, I hardly ever went into a vortex. Personally I prefer to fly her gently, but IMO it's possible to push her more like e.g. a Huey.

 

Also generator failure hardly occured (maybe once when I raises the collective too much). It may also be of importance to not make a too sharp turn?

 

Most difficult part was to keep her straight when quickly raising the collective ans going into hover. It needed quite some right pedal use.

 

Either way, during missions I'll land gently again. But if you need to land in a hot LZ, then such a 360 degree manover can be very helpful IMO.

Not sure how accurate/realistic DCS because I never flew a real helicopter. In my attempts, I hardly ever went into a vortex. Personally I prefer to fly her gently, but IMO it's possible to push her more like e.g. a Huey.

 

Also generator failure hardly occured (maybe once when I raises the collective too much). It may also be of importance to not make a too sharp turn?

 

 

 

This video is for the Huey, but gives a good idea how realistic DCS is:

 

 

In short, DCS isn't bug free or 100% to the numbers all the time, but it's not far off :thumbup:

 

 

As far as sharp turns go, this won't cause RPM to drop. It's counter intuitive, but loading the disk (sharp turns, flaring) actually causes RPM to increase, not decrease.