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Cessna 172!


mytai01

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It's kind of a misconception that the C-172 is what new pilots learn on in the military... This is incorrect. I know this from experience. I was an IFS (Introductory Flight Screening) instructor last summer. IFS is the first stop for flight students if they have never had any prior flight experience, in which they work to solo and then they're done. Absolutely NO navigation knowledge is taught in the 172 (or diamonds, warriors, Cherokees, you name it), but simply what's required by the FAA, and then how to land. Can you land a plane on the sim? If so, you're already past that stage. After IFS, students move into primary flight training in the T-6 Texan. Yes, after about 10hrs in a C-172 they move from 160hp to 1,200hp. This is where they learn all the navigation and formation flying, as well as reinforcement of ground procedures they learn for flying. THE FLYING THEY DO IS PURELY TO GAIN MECHANICAL KNOWLEDGE (MUSCLE MEMORY). Every student comes into EVERY flight knowing 100% of what they need to do, they don't do much learning inside the aircraft other than the butt feelings of it. After primary, they then go to whatever pipeline they are selected into.

 

 

But...when I flew with a great bunch of persons from this community in a simple mission I was blown away by the amount of knowledge I don't have regarding flight, flight regulations, flight basics, flight navigation..etc.

 

It's not uncommon to play with people who have been flying this sim for years. I myself have been flying this one alone for almost 4 years, as well as flying MFSX before that. You just simply cannot learn everything by yourself.

 

Going back to the A-10C tutorial missions for example, it explains navigation thoroughly. Again, there are no airways for you to follow as well. Sure, you could make your own though.

 

Flight regulations are nonexistent in this sim in terms of FAA general aviation regs- we're in another country entirely, as well as a combat zone. Unless you fly with former combat pilots, you won't know exactly the regs in the first place.

 

Regarding the basics of flight, 90% of the pilots online don't know what to say when entering a traffic pattern. On top of that, military traffic patterns aren't rectangles like they are in civil aviation, but ovals. In the words of a Hornet pilot I talked to last week, "It's just how you land the jet."

 

It became apparent that it's up to me to catch up and learn all that.

Now...I can play catch up as much as I want and still stay behind all the time...or...I can work hard, study hard, practice hard and become at least as good as others here.

I know that nothing can replace the butt feeling one has during flight, the enormity of being responsible for the lives of others or for a pretty expensive bird...and yet...I am willing to fly a flamingo (wether it be a 172 or whatever) if that shall make me a better DCS pilot.

I know how good I am and how better I can be once I walk the whole nine yards.

I'm sure that there are many others here who are just like me.

We don't need much...just one or two first stage planes, one or two medium stage plane and...well...we have the Hawk for the advanced stage.

 

Flying a C-172, you will be in catch-up mode until you become knowledgeable on how to work radars, RWRs, etc. Experience in the real world is simply the number of hours you log, and to move up it's the number of hours in a specific air-frame that makes you experienced. You can't practice the things you need to be successful in a combat situation in a C-172. As long as you know how the controls work, and what happens when you manipulate the stick (or yoke in that case), you would be much better off gaining experience in the frame of your choosing. The Hawk would be more than enough for your intro needs.

 

But...won't you mind having more and better DCS pilots in the community and up there in the Georgian skies?

 

Absolutely, but beginner aircraft are not the way to go. Nobody is going to drop MSFS (now owned by Lockheed Martin and named Prepar3d), and pay another $50 for a C-172 module, only to then pay more for an aircraft they want. There will always be a steep learning curve no matter what you do. You're going to get shot down a lot, but with a sim it's ok. In the real world, you wouldn't have hogs taking out SAMs, ATC wouldn't just stop working, and the AWAC would always work like it's supposed to, so a lot of the unknown is gone. A C-172 I am immediately against for this sim. A T-6 would be alright because they also have the new AT-6, and I'm sure some would enjoy that, and it would also add another attack aircraft to the fleet.

 

My advice- Join a squadron. Ask questions if you're unsure. There's a reason flight instructors are around, and it's because this is a field where you can't learn everything yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tl;dr- please go back through it if you skipped over it. Good info on a lot of topics.


Edited by ttaylor0024
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...we already had this discussion here ->http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=108549

 

But hell yeah, give us some cessnas. At least some L-19 Bird Dog or Skymaster.

 

Nearly every RL flightschool (also military) uses a 150/152/172... Why cant we have one in DCS? maybe theres a chance to get a "flightschool module".

 

No real fighterpilot starts in a hawk or mustang ;-)

 

There are many nice high quality models out there for other sims like those from carenado. Im no programmer, but wouldnt it be possible to build them also for DCS?

 

Example:

 

[ATTACH]108167[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]108168[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]108169[/ATTACH]

 

And for those guys which dont like the idea of cessnas in DCS, dont buy it ;)

 

But I beleive there would be a good market for this....

 

 

You took it out of my mouth!!! Yes!! I second a 337 or a C172. This can be a great add-on to beginners of flight simulation, and can be very helpful in low altitude bush flying training. I have both 337 XP10 (carenado's) and 172 (A2A) and I mix and mash between the two. The weather system in DCS just could use a little touch by developers, and it should be the best sim platform in history.

 

I'd buy 172 again if it ever came to DCS. I mean its a readily accessible plane, you can almost hire one at any airfield and test it all you like, numerous pilots can give feedback to tune the flight model.

 

I'll prefer a non-glass avionics suite, the one having radios alone. I'm sure modders will be working their asses off modding wooden cockpits, textures. Fun for the whole family and not just plain bombing or fighter chase.

 

 

But lets descend to reality. This is digital combat simulator. I don't think developers would want a 4 passenger plane in the field, but if they do (quite a long shot), MANY MANY people from FSX will migrate to DCS and if weather system is fixed, even more people from XP10.

 

Also, AFAIK, a 3rd party developer expressed intent in a long list of future DCS projects to model the A340 MRTT. Being a huge supporter of Airbus (no flame wars just personal taste), I'll bite with teeth and sink fingernails into that one.

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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C'mon Guys, Flying Cessna is FUN!!!

 

Cessna.BMP

 

...100HP and 90 Knots of screaming Terror!

 

and for those of you who want to fly in a maybe future DCS:Vietnam scenery, besides Huey and Sabre and so on, a L-19 or Skymaster is a MUST :pilotfly:

 

and so everyone can do and buy what he wants... isn't this great??? ;)

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Hm, sorry I don't get it. We have already a lot of prop planes (thanks to WW2) and as stated above, there are a couple of jet-trainers in the pipeline.

 

I have flown the 172 in the MS Flight Simulator, no need to do it here and pay 50 bucks for it.

 

Would never buy it...

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I would love to see DCS open up to the civilian types of aircraft, but I personally would not want to buy it.

DCS: F-4E really needs to be a thing!!!!!!

 

 

Aircraft: A-10C, Ka-50, UH-1H, MiG-21, F-15C, Su-27, MiG-29, A-10A, Su-25, Su-25T, TF-51

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Caessna is good!

 

... but only for a target :P .

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Someone make a Skymaster, put it some rockets, paint it in Portuguese AF theme and you have my money. :pilotfly: :joystick: :smartass:

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Someone make a Skymaster, put it some rockets, paint it in Portuguese AF theme and you have my money. :pilotfly: :joystick: :smartass:

 

I'm ok with this. Very ok with this. Skymasters rule. The Rhodie mods were awesome.

 

nGsHM6o.jpg

PK6rZxr.jpg

 

To be clear, this wasn't even an O-2A, it was a civilian 337.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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Honestly I would buy any DCS module as long as it's up to standart. For a long time I also really want a civi airframe, but skymaster sounds good too...

 

VEAO you will get my money too with AFM! :D

 

Freeflight is awesome too, would love to just fly around with many different airplanes in a lively airspace, maybe that's the point where lotac tars/ies will really pick up... *dream*

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Honestly I would buy any DCS module as long as it's up to standart. For a long time I also really want a civi airframe, but skymaster sounds good too...

 

 

Well, Skymasters started out as the civil 336, then retractable gear 337s.

 

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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Honestly, I was being "tongue in cheek" with this thread to see what reaction I could get. I didn't expect this much interest. :megalol:

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In the meantime, there is Carenado sale (ends Dec 21st)

You can get it for x-plane or fsx.

 

th_Car_C337_7_zps95e39318.png

 

I'd be awesome to have some GA aircraft in the sim.

I'm still waiting for an A330 MRTT. Or some big, cargo planes. (C130, C40, C17) :joystick:

 

Oh.. and by the way.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/this-tiny-plane-is-an-f-16-for-cash-strapped-air-forces-35a8823a0c2b

 

COMBAT GRAND CARAVAN!

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Just because DCS is mostly about combat, IMO that doesn't mean we couldn't have a ton of different aircraft in DCS which people would equally enjoy, a C130 would be fun for example, as would a ton of other aircraft which traditionally might not have guns (yes I know they made the C130 gunship - was just exampling :D )

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Combat's supported by long caravans of logistics. Having to deliver goodies to ground forces on highways, evac wounded, and provide general here and there transportation for troops would be pretty awesome. We already have that capability with Huey and Hip, to start.

 

In a multiplayer scenario I propose would lay down lines of battle that could be influenced by ground forces advancing on various towns as objectives. Ground forces require two things: Supply and Close Air Support.

 

CAS is self explanatory and you could use that to supplement for the lack of logistics by ensuring force protection. However, it would be wisest to balance CAS and logistical support. Fly in to reinforce positions, then fly out with wounded to restore assets and men instead of just outright losing them.

 

We have Huey and Hip for rotary winged assets to fulfill this, but for fixed wing I'd suggest Twin Otter and An-2.

 

This not only would add depth to the Air-to-Ground game, but also to the Air-to-Air as well as you have to provide air-cover for them.

 

This would really come to fruition with airmobile forces dropped behind enemy lines, having to fly in supplies and such to a pocket of paratroopers. An aircraft like Strike Eagle or Su-30 would really come into its own here to provide both air superiority and strike capabilities.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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You sure about that?

 

Nearly every RL flightschool (also military) uses a 150/152/172... Why cant we have one in DCS? maybe theres a chance to get a "flightschool module".

 

No real fighterpilot starts in a hawk or mustang ;-)

 

Exactly. No real fighter pilot starts in a Hawk or Mustang. Although that is true, your purpose is defeated because you don't die because you crashed your plane in a simulator--hence why you don't need training before you get in a Hawk or Mustang in this sim. Pilot training at its core is to make you a pilot who has a low chance of killing anyone. and AFAIK it would only be a cash grab to make such a product, since there isn't much practicality to it (ex. put yourself in a Mustang in the ME, and click briefing every time you crash. :lol:) Not to mention the worst thing you can do is get used to another aircraft before flying your main aircraft.

 

It may be realism, but what is the utilitarian purpose of it? None, I fear. A starter plane with AFM+/PFM would be plausible, however. :)


Edited by Harpoon

If you want to talk to anyone about anything personal, send it to their PM box. Interpersonal drama and ad hominem rebuttal are things that do not belong on a thread viewed by the public.

One thing i have to point out... naming a thread.. "OK, so" is as useful as tits on a bull.
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Real fighter pilots start in an aircraft that has only 490 less HP than the P-51 had (T-6), the C172 is NOT used in training.

 

Not my point. :doh:

If you want to talk to anyone about anything personal, send it to their PM box. Interpersonal drama and ad hominem rebuttal are things that do not belong on a thread viewed by the public.

One thing i have to point out... naming a thread.. "OK, so" is as useful as tits on a bull.
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