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RSBN/ILS Question


dresoccer4

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hello all, i had a quick question about RSBN ILS (PRMG?).

 

so the situation is: i have the the RSBN/ILS channel plugged in and am getting a good morse code signal. i've set the runway course in the HSI, and i've flown so everything is lined up and good for landing. i'm about 40km out.

 

my question is, once you flick the RSBN Mode Select switch to "Landing", is there a specific distance in which the MiG picks up the localizer and glidescope? in my current situation, i'm about 40km from the RSBN station (runway) and i can still hear the morse code and the DME is working, but the HSI and and ADI shoot off course and both white flags appear in the HSI (which mean not receiving any signals).

 

any clarifications would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks!

-Daniel


Edited by dresoccer4

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hello all, i had a quick question about RSBN ILS (PRMG?).

 

so the situation is: i have the the RSBN/ILS channel plugged in and am getting a good morse code signal. i've set the runway course in the HSI, and i've flown so everything is lined up and good for landing. i'm about 40km out.

 

my question is, once you flick the RSBN Mode Select switch to "Landing", is there a specific distance in which the MiG picks up the localizer and glidescope? in my current situation, i'm about 40km from the RSBN station (runway) and i can still hear the morse code, but the HSI and and ADI shoot off course and both white flags appear in the HSI (which mean not receiving any signals).

 

any clarifications would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks!

-Daniel

 

Thats are 22 NM and too far away for the ILS. Switch to landing at about 10 NM (18 KM).

 

Here an example: ILS approach

The final approach starts at about 9 NM in this case.

 

And you have to be at the correct altitude. Try 3000 feet QFE (1000 meters, more precisely 900 but 1000 is good). Stay clear of ground and obstacles - look on the map.

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At 40km, it sounds like you are out of range of the PRMG/ILS signal. IIRC penetration mode is programmed to level off at 600 m AGL @ 20 km.

 

This is assuming you have contacted ATC to confirm the runway is active and that the runway is equipped with PRMG.

 

The morse code you hear *may* be from the co-located RSBN beacon but I'm not sure.

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Thats are 22 NM and too far away for the ILS. Switch to landing at about 10 NM (18 KM)....

 

At 40km, it sounds like you are out of range of the PRMG/ILS signal...

 

thanks for responses, guys. so i kept flying straight and level at about 1km AGL (lined up with the runway) on "Landing" mode, and the localizer and glidescope signals both were received at about 23km from the RSBN, pretty good distance!

 

wasnt sure if i'd pick up the signals further away at a higher altitude, or if all RSBN/PRMG's in the game were set the same way with strict signal distances and altitudes. or if weather was a mitigating factor!

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... wasnt sure if i'd pick up the signals further away at a higher altitude, or if all RSBN/PRMG's in the game were set the same way with strict signal distances and altitudes. or if weather was a mitigating factor!

The limited range of the PRMG/ILS signal is one of the reasons for the penetration mode - which constructs an electronic glide slope based on the RSBN distance signal and airfield QFE.

 

Switch to Penetration mode -

  • note any high ground the electronic glide slope may not take into account
  • Use the RSBN radial and course to line up on the runway centreline and/or
  • fly at your chosen altitude until intercepting the electronic glide slope
  • follow the KPP(ADI) descent cue until it levels off at 600 m AGL @ 20 km.

Then switch to PRMG Landing mode -

  • With both flags valid
  • Line up on the PRMG localizer radio beam
  • maintain 600 m AGL until intercepting the PRMG glide slope radio beam (at approx 12 km)
  • follow the glide slope until reaching the decision height to land visually or go around.

 

Line of sight and range is modelled, I'm not sure if weather is.


Edited by Ramsay

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There are three conditions that have to be met for ADI and HSI to display glide slope indications:

1. Plane has to be in PRMG beam which is 25km and +-2°

2. RSBN receiver mode has to be in the down - PRMG approach (landing) potion

3. Automatic or Directional SAU mode has to be enabled. This may not be so obvious as if the PRMG signal is not received, the selected SAU mode won't enable (green light flickers just for a moment). The 2° beam doesn't leave much space for an error and it can happen that while being in range due to only a small deviation from the optimal glide path the SAU mode will not engage.

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thanks for all of your answers guys, really interesting stuff! love learning about it. kinda though the ILS system seemed a little stubby, and also noticed that you couldn't get the localizer without the glideslope signal

 

one more question: for the penetration/descent mode, this computes its own glideslope pretty far out, but when i tried it, it seemed the localizer (or course navigation) went out completely. so i could see my descent path but had no idea if i was on course. is this intended?


Edited by dresoccer4

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hello all, i had a quick question about RSBN ILS (PRMG?).

 

so the situation is: i have the the RSBN/ILS channel plugged in and am getting a good morse code signal. i've set the runway course in the HSI, and i've flown so everything is lined up and good for landing. i'm about 40km out.

 

my question is, once you flick the RSBN Mode Select switch to "Landing", is there a specific distance in which the MiG picks up the localizer and glidescope? in my current situation, i'm about 40km from the RSBN station (runway) and i can still hear the morse code and the DME is working, but the HSI and and ADI shoot off course and both white flags appear in the HSI (which mean not receiving any signals).

 

any clarifications would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks!

-Daniel

 

RSBN descend mode will end at 20km away from the runway. PRMG has a maximum range of 25km. So first line up with the runway by using the middle position (Navigation mode).

Switch to Up position (Cloud peneration/descend mode) and follow the RSBN until you reach PRMG maximum range of 25km.

Switch to Down position (PRMG/Landing mode) between 25 - 20km. PRMG signal will be slightly off from the orginal RSBN, so correct you aircraft to right course.

After intercepting PRMG, follow the signal to runway threshold.

 

Couple tips:

 

- RSBN descend signal will end at 20km. Don't follow the altitude guidance beyond this point.

- You can level your aircraft around 25km before switching to landing mode. PRGM altitude will be higher than the RSBN, so it's faster to catch the right altitude this way.

- The small needles above and side ADI are the PRMG needles (ILS) which are showing your location in reference to a localizer. The Big needles are directional indicators. They tell you where to go in order to intercept the localizer. Don't mix them up.

- With PRMG you can use autoland mode in autopilot panel which will take you to threshold of the runway. It will not land the aircraft.

- You can set a low altitude warning up to 350m of the ground. You hear a audio warning if going too low. When training PRMG landing this might safe you life. Additional there is also a autopilot mode which will pitch your nose up if you go below the selected altitude.

- RSBN/PRMG morse code can be abit annoying so it's good to mute it up. But when in >20km of the runway set the volume back up so you can hear the markers.

- Outer marker = Have everything ready. Flaps, gears, glideslope etc. otherwise Go around. Inner marker = Have a visual on the runway, otherwise Go around.


Edited by RedShot

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There are three conditions that have to be met for ADI and HSI to display glide slope indications:

1. Plane has to be in PRMG beam which is 25km and +-2°

2. RSBN receiver mode has to be in the down - PRMG approach (landing) potion

3. Automatic or Directional SAU mode has to be enabled. This may not be so obvious as if the PRMG signal is not received, the selected SAU mode won't enable (green light flickers just for a moment). The 2° beam doesn't leave much space for an error and it can happen that while being in range due to only a small deviation from the optimal glide path the SAU mode will not engage.

 

Automatic and Directional SAU modes are optional. Purpose of these are to help pilot guide the aircraft to the runway threshold.

 

In automatic mode autopilot will take control of aircrafts pitch and bank channels and follow the glideslope.

In directional mode the SAU will provide pitch and bank cues on the ADI using the big needles.

Other words duplicating what the smaller PRMG needles are showing.


Edited by RedShot

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RSBN descend mode will end at 20km away from the runway. PRMG has a maximum range of 25km. So first line up with the runway by using the middle position (Navigation mode)...

 

...

 

many thanks for the detailed response and tips.

 

as asked in my previous question, do you know if the descend mode supports course/radial navigation (localizer)? i seem to lose that signal when switching from navigation mode, and can get pretty far off course by the time i reach PRMG range

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Automatic and Directional SAU modes are optional. Purpose of these are to help pilot guide the aircraft to the runway threshold....

 

i thought this as well, didn't think you needed any SAU engagement to get glideslope feedback

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as asked in my previous question, do you know if the descend mode supports course/radial navigation (localizer)? i seem to lose that signal when switching from navigation mode, and can get pretty far off course by the time i reach PRMG range

 

No, you have to switch between descend and nav modes.

It's dumb i know but after practise you learn to keep ADI course needle lined up, while in descend mode.

In the end it's about right with RSBN. Goal is to intercept the PRMG signal which we start really following.

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