Oculus Rift S With DCS World Discussion

I plan to get the rift s and sell the odyssey+ also if the resolution is slightly lower, because I think the oculus has a better software (well if dcs will support asw2 would be really nice) and also because I think it will be easier on the PC.

I really put my hopes on that and I think that with the planned vr improvements and the vulkan engine we will be able to get full 80fps in most phases of a mix with reasonable settings and pd value

Yeah, the back-end software seems to be best/best supported for the rift, followed by steamVR/WMR. I have not heard good things about pi-tool and DCS in general so far.

Honestly as the display res goes up, PD values will become less and less important. A 2160 display at PD1.0 will look way better than a 1080 display at PD 2.0, because you still just see 1080 pixels even though the amount of pixels pushed is the same. Plus there is some overhead with PD from down-sampling everything as well.

The comparison I'm waiting for is Rift S vs Lenovo Explorer.... both 1440 screens, curious to know if Oculus have done something in the lens department to give a better picture.

The comparison I'm waiting for is Rift S vs Lenovo Explorer.... both 1440 screens, curious to know if Oculus have done something in the lens department to give a better picture.

I believe that both companies are involved in the Rift S. The logo for both are on the sides.

Well it looks like i need to invest in a Rift S when it comes out.

Honestly as the display res goes up, PD values will become less and less important. A 2160 display at PD1.0 will look way better than a 1080 display at PD 2.0, because you still just see 1080 pixels even though the amount of pixels pushed is the same. Plus there is some overhead with PD from down-sampling everything as well.

Have to agree on that point - I tried out an O+ and at PD 1.0 it looked much clearer than the Rift at PD 1.3.

Personally waiting on the Rift S as a tide-me-over till some decent tech shows up GPU and headset-wise. Just seems simple to swap from Rift to Rift S with some nice clarity improvement, and IPD, FOV, etc never bothered me that much.

For me it's bitter to see how Wag's statement is misused in the media around VR. It fulfills exactly what Facebook wanted, create some more fuzz about an HMD which is underwhelming at best and not even on par with HMD's from 2018 where "I can read EVERYTHING" was already possible in a much better quality the Rift S will never be able to achieve.

You can take it as you take it, but one should respect the Mr. Wags own words, instead it as a marketing talk as orchested manner from Facebook to generate hype that doesn't exist.

Just lets remember that while He did receive the unit that no one else here have, he has reported his own experience comparing it to RIft CV1, and his words has more weight to the performance quality than anyone else here at this moment.

One can compare specs, but those do not say anything until they are put in the context. And that means that even when on paper something is much better (like wider FOV, higher resolution on panel per eye etc) it can be in real world situation such that it doesn't matter at all such way as it can be read.

Analogy, a car A top speed of 260km/h is on paper far better than car B top speed of 215 km/h, but it doesn't matter at all anything if the average speed the driver anyways can maintain is 56km/h and highest speed limit they can drive on any road is 120 km/h. At any given situation the driver will not drive faster than 120km/h and in some emergency situations 140 km/h (passing a another car while avoiding incoming cars in another line). There are far more important elements to play for a good purchase than some numbers on paper, like is a car A a wagon and car B a transport, or is A a luxury car and B a average family car?

Regardless what the specs say, results can be that the difference is negligent.

In this case, the Rift S can very well appear to be such that it fixes the major downside of the current generation VR devices, that is the clarity for small details like texts and labels in DCS aircraft cockpits. For the small price what is stated to be $399, that is a very valuable upgrade to any DCS virtual pilots then. Most do not need to get the best of the best and most expensive that likely would require to upgrade not just CPU, but as well GPU to 1200€ parts, and then spend even more time to tweak and play to get a lot more demanding VR device work at average level. All that just to get a little wider FOV, a little more this and that.

For a every 5K VR HMD there will be likely a 30-50 who will purchase a Rift S. And if there is one 5K buyer for DCS, there will be 2-3 for Rift S for DCS.

Most people can't afford to put a 2000-3000€ for a DCS hardware (CPU, motherboard, RAM, GPU, Pimax 5K+) to run it at "best possible hardware".

Now alone one can consider that a Rift S as is, will be amazing upgrade feature to Rift CV1 users as you get just one cable, improvement to clarity in cockpit (now based to Mr. Wags word) to be able enjoy reading the cockpit elements etc, and still lower hardware requirements to run DCS overall.

That means, people can run couple years old gaming laptop with 1070 or 1080 in them, connect Rift S to it, take the laptop to friends place, on holiday etc with a simple HOTAS/stick (like just a CH fighterstick) and simply get a great demo/results to fly, compared to anything any other VR system is right now really offering.

So is that a marketing hype from Facebook as they want? No.... That is likely just how they saw the Rift S to be. Not to raise the HW requirements, not to raise $ price to buy it, simply polish the CV1 so it works far nicer manner. No extra cables, better clarity, easy take-in-use (in new location draw the guardian walls and start playing).

That is almost literally as easy as plugging a controller to in USB port and start gaming.

I have been a huge supporter and proponent for Oculus for quite some time, hard to believe I am even saying this now.

I would venture to say the bulk of DCS players especially VR enthusiasts put some serious bucks in their system to try and get the best experience they can in VR with DCS. These same enthusiasts have no problem spending some bucks for a better headset. While the Rift S offers a little better resolution and ease of use, it also lacks in some areas the Rift was so good with.

I held out and held out while others were jumping to other devices, convinced the next Rift would be my next headset.

I no longer feel that way. I shall see...

Regarding the S... I’m excitedly waiting to hear Matt's review once the NDA is lifted… I have a good feeling he is working with Oculus to dramatically improve the experience with DCS… visuals and performance.

Oops...performance boost 50 percent will come in one of the next updates, that’s why we can go for a real upgrade in headset like vive cosmos or the Valve index! The boost is for all headsets that’s why everybody excited the next months. Much to come, but wich one is the overall best for our beloved DCS world? In a few months we know! :D

While the Rift S offers a little better resolution and ease of use, it also lacks in some areas the Rift was so good with.

On paper the Rift S resolution is just "little better", but if you read example the Mr. Wags comment about his experience, the difference is dramatic.

And that is what the resolution number doesn't tell, as it is a Pentile vs RGB panel change.

That alone is almost like a 1-5-2x increase in resolution when it comes to definition. It is not so "smooth" as pentile is, but it does improve many many things and a lot.

I am totally find with the Pentile, but for every other VR game than DCS. The reason is that DCS is the most demanding VR game that there is. That is purely by its small details there are in the cockpit like gauges lines, hands and small numbers. And then throw there a more complex graphical elements like green pixelated font against a orange/green texture like A-10C moving map, you can't read those at all. Even green font on black screen is difficult to read and requires either zooming or leaning forward. And both of those are immersion breaking tasks, especially zooming.

People here are so against about CV1/Vive resolution in unit spotting, but I can spot air targets like helicopters against terrain at about 10-13 km range. For air targets like a Mig-29 I can spot against sky at 15-19 km range. And ground units does similar now at about 10-13 km.

That was yesterday when I tested new HOTAS configuration in a A-10C quick mission with labels that are off-axis from the targets, and that was great reason to just disable the labels as I don't anyways use them but the last Open Beta update enabled them for some reason.

But with CV1 one being able to spot an fighter like Mig-29 on sky past 3-4 km is already unnatural experience. Just like already it is known that example Mig-21 or F-5 are such that if they will turn their nose on you, you can't really see them even under 1 km range. They are so tiny and thin that you have extreme challenge to spot them. And that is their one great advantage in dog fight in real world training that no matter how you keep your eye on them, once they point nose on you, you lose them. And you need to know their attitude, position and trajectory to perform your maneuvers instead trying to spot them. So you need to fly by the numbers, not visually.

For the experiences from the Vietnam the USAF made the BVR ranges for their new aircraft designs factors. And they had the BVR ranges set to just few kilometers. Not for 25-30 km but well below 10 km varied by the size of the aircraft (F-14, F-5, F-4 etc).

For ground troops the basic rules are that once there is an aircraft up in the air, just stop and you are invisible to the pilot even from less than a 700 meters. If you move or there is a clear shape, movement or pattern like standing soldier at open with an strong shadow, or a patrol in a open line, the pilot can spot infantry up to 1500 meters. vehicles that are on the move are just couple kilometers on the road, stationary on off-road it is again under kilometer if there is anything to blend it in.

So all the current VR systems are already providing way further spotting ranges than in reality pilots would have. Unnatural one can find out.

Meaning, the problem is not to spot the targets on the air or ground, the problem is to read the gauges and numbers in the cockpit. If you need to lean at all in any aircraft to read something, the cockpit is not VR friendly. Be it then a Mach number in F-5 or a label in a F-14, you should be able read them without leaning or zooming.

And CV1 is close to that already, not great for many things, but suitable if you know by heart what is the scale you are looking for. But if the Rift S does it so you can actually recognize is the number 5 or is it 6, then that is already enough.

Personally, I have no complaints about the ability to spot an aircraft.

My issue is the ability to IDENTIFY an aircraft, which seems to require being virtually on top of them.

Personally, I have no complaints about the ability to spot an aircraft.

My issue is the ability to IDENTIFY an aircraft, which seems to require being virtually on top of them.

But that is the real thing, to identify an aircraft requires you to be in reality very very close to them.

Sure it is easier if it is a F-14 vs Mig-19, but if you need to identify a Mig-15 from F-86, you need to get close.

And I can get even that done at about 1 km range if in good attitude, but from rear or front, not really.

But if it would be a BLUEFOR F-18 vs REDFOR F-18 and difference is the skin, it is couple hundred meters at worst depending the skin difference.

You make solid points about DCS vs reality.

However, I would argue that it’s not necessarily a valid comparison, as this is still a game of sorts and everything is relative. Right now as a CV1 user, I am at a spotting disadvantage against other players online who use higher resolution monitors, and we are all at a massive disadvantage against the all seeing AI.

I can live with the disadvantage against monitor users, as the situational awareness in a dogfight using VR easily levels the field. However, if we are to accept spotting that is close to reality as you rightfully argue, our main enemy - the AI - needs to be brought to the same level.

Somebody at ED needs to take the AI out back with a rubber hose and beat it till its IQ drops by 100 points, and then they need to do brain surgery on it to raise its IQ back up to about 100... :)

Somebody at ED needs to take the AI out back with a rubber hose and beat it till its IQ drops by 100 points, and then they need to do brain surgery on it to raise its IQ back up to about 100... :)

Hahaha that about sums it up

On paper the Rift S resolution is just "little better", but if you read example the Mr. Wags comment about his experience, the difference is dramatic.

 

And that is what the resolution number doesn't tell, as it is a Pentile vs RGB panel change.

 

 

That alone is almost like a 1-5-2x increase in resolution when it comes to definition. It is not so "smooth" as pentile is, but it does improve many many things and a lot.

 

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I dont see much of a difference between the two.

You make solid points about DCS vs reality.

 

However, I would argue that it’s not necessarily a valid comparison, as this is still a game of sorts and everything is relative. Right now as a CV1 user, I am at a spotting disadvantage against other players online who use higher resolution monitors, and we are all at a massive disadvantage against the all seeing AI.

 

I can live with the disadvantage against monitor users, as the situational awareness in a dogfight using VR easily levels the field. However, if we are to accept spotting that is close to reality as you rightfully argue, our main enemy - the AI - needs to be brought to the same level.

I tell you what, I've been comparing 5K+ and my Acer 34" Predator. I never meant to do a comparison, but I started creating a simple mission to test visual acuity. So you end up flying it in the mission editor w/ my monitor. Ask all the 4K monitor owners how the great resolution impacts targeting of planes in distance.

I tell you what, I've been comparing 5K+ and my Acer 34" Predator. I never meant to do a comparison, but I started creating a simple mission to test visual acuity. So you end up flying it in the mission editor w/ my monitor. Ask all the 4K monitor owners how the great resolution impacts targeting of planes in distance.

Haha, I apologize but I don’t follow: are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

I myself have only used a CV1, and I know it compares very poorly with my small 1080 monitor, but no doubt the newer generation headsets like the 5K+ are a real boost

Haha, I apologize but I don’t follow: are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

 

I myself have only used a CV1, and I know it compares very poorly with my small 1080 monitor, but no doubt the newer generation headsets like the 5K+ are a real boost

Both, actually. With 1920x1080, things are crisp and easier to see and pretty. 4K makes it even prettier, but the pixels are much much smaller and spotting the meatball and targets are much harder. Just google 4k spotting dcs target and you'll see what I mean.

I will make a through the lens video showing a level flight that shows the meatball, some ground targets, and A10, F15's flying 5, and 10 miles away.

I haven't tried with CV1 yet, but with 5K+, I can see the planes. Sure, I have to look for it, but I can see the movement. It's the same with my Acer. You *have* to look for it. It doesn't show up as clearly as 1920x1080 monitors.

@Fri13

I would recommend leaving the Facebook bubble and take a look what happened around VR since 2016. Comparing something against the Rift CV1 is easy, the CV1 is pretty much outdated on all aspects that matter for sims of any kind. It has the lowest FOV and the lowest resolution, even the OLED contrasts and brightness levels are not on par with the other old gen HMD from 2016, the Vive. People who complain about the Rift S are very aware of the developments since 2016, they expected a more viable hardware upgrade in 2019 and just get a cheap replacement with a tiny bump in resolution. The Rift S is not for sim enthusiasts, it's for people who want to get into casual PCVR at a very low standard.

Alec Delorean CV1 resolution Is the same as the original 2016 vive and its visual clarity Is slightly Better, as everyone can verify by trying the two. Rift s has 1440p vertical resolution, similar to many other newer vr headsets (the same as pimax 5k+ and only slightly less than vive pro, but with lcd instead of oled, so less sde). There are some new hmds with 2160 vertical resolution but they are extreme-end devices with extreme prices and noone knows if either a 2080ti can handle (hp reverb Is intended for business, we do not even know if It Will have adequate frame rates to play games). The recently announced valve index Will more likely have a resolution similar to Rift s but Will Need external tracking, while Rift s uses inside-out tracking, making It an easier to use and more advanced device (do you believe One day people Will continue to plug and configure complex tracking stations? Inside-out tracking Is the future of VR, both for enthusiast and casual devices, that's a matter of fact). So, at the end of the day, what are all these more viable and higher standards hardware upgrades for cv1 in 2019? I'm waiting for the names to add to my shopping wishlist...

Just some months ago I stated in a thread advising some people to wait with Rift purchase as a new one could be around the corner , told ya! :) ... I couldn't find the thread, I'm a bit curious what the person who seeken advice has decided at the time.

Did they announce the definitive rift s release date?

I searched for it today , and found nothing .....

One of my squadron mates ran into an Oculus Rep in Best Buy and he stated that the new headset (which one?) will be available next weekend...just passing on what was passed on to me. Will only believe when I see it for myself.