C-802AKG without Data Link pod?

So, is the CM802akg suppose to be able to guide itself on terminal with PP entered? Wondering if it is a bug or normal behavior we are seeing right now.

no - it only has inertial guidance, not precise enough for well precision strikes :P

It's either a bug or both manuals (Deka & Chuck's) have to be corrected because they seem to suggest that in DIR and COO modes, the missile will "fly to SPI directly" and "will attack PP point", respectively without the need for the datalink pod/man-in-the-loop terminal guidance.

It's either a bug or both manuals (Deka & Chuck's) have to be corrected because they seem to suggest that in DIR and COO modes, the missile will "fly to SPI directly" and "will attack PP point", respectively without the need for the datalink pod/man-in-the-loop terminal guidance.

Read the text again, all the way through to weapons launch etc, you missed something

Read the text again, all the way through to weapons launch etc, you missed something

It may well be that you need datalink pod/TV steering in all 3 modes but it is not written clearly. The Deka manual leaves much to be desired. Chuck's is better though it could be more concise and less repetitive.

it could be more concise and less repetitive.

Feel free to make your own if you think you can do better.

The more resources available the better.

Feel free to make your own if you think you can do better.

 

The more resources available the better.

It is repetitive for example with the AKG. It could have saved some pages. Not unappreciative. Just saying. An observation that is obvious and just feedback. Otherwise, by the same reasoning you should just accept the current Deka manual as it is. But obviously it needs improvement.

Damn chuck and his too helpful manuals. Nerf pls. XD

It may well be that you need datalink pod/TV steering in all 3 modes but it is not written clearly. The Deka manual leaves much to be desired. Chuck's is better though it could be more concise and less repetitive.

Feel free to make your own if you think you can do better.

 

The more resources available the better.

i've been following along Chuck's guide as well, and currently on segment:

2.7.3

– CM

-802AKG TV

-GUIDED MISSILE

(DIR, Direct)

I got lost here because the last step was:

Step 19. To launch the CM

-802AKG, press the S3 Weapon Release Button (« RALT+SPACE »). The missile will fly to the Route

Point RP1 first, then steer to the designated SPI

So I assumed the missile would then fly into my SPI and destroy the target. I thought i was doing it wrong because i could never get it to work. kept reading each step over and over and banging my head against the wall thinking i was a moron haha. finally after a while of googling i realized there's a step 20: fly it in manually with the data link pod. Still haven't found out how to that exactly yet

i've been following along Chuck's guide as well, and currently on segment:

 

2.7.3

– CM

-802AKG TV

-GUIDED MISSILE

(DIR, Direct)

 

I got lost here because the last step was:

 

Step 19. To launch the CM

-802AKG, press the S3 Weapon Release Button (« RALT+SPACE »). The missile will fly to the Route

Point RP1 first, then steer to the designated SPI

 

So I assumed the missile would then fly into my SPI and destroy the target. I thought i was doing it wrong because i could never get it to work. kept reading each step over and over and banging my head against the wall thinking i was a moron haha. finally after a while of googling i realized there's a step 20: fly it in manually with the data link pod. Still haven't found out how to that exactly yet

I did more testing. Basically all 3 modes (DIR/COO/MAN-MITL) require the datalink pod and final manual steering via TV (select POD / MIL). So the modes should really be called DIR-MITL, COO-MITL and MAN-MITL? Should have known better since after all, it's a 'TV Guided Missile'.

The way the procedures in the manuals are described (and I appreciate them) may give the impression that DIR and COO modes will fly the missile to the SPI and PP respectively and even destroy the targets there. But it will not do that. I assume now it's suppose to fly to the general location of the SPI/PP and then the pilot takes over, ie, man-in-the-loop. But even that I suspect is bugged because I noticed the missile makes only a few arbitrary? and inadequate degrees of flight path correction to the SPI/PP which will not point it in the direction of the SPI/PP if your plane is pointed more than several degrees off target at time of missile launch. See post (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=260808).

I did more testing. Basically all 3 modes (DIR/COO/MAN-MITL) require the datalink pod and final manual steering via TV (select POD / MIL). So the modes should really be called DIR-MITL, COO-MITL and MAN-MITL? Should have known better since after all, it's a 'TV Guided Missile'.

 

The way the procedures in the manuals are described (and I appreciate them) may give the impression that DIR and COO modes will fly the missile to the SPI and PP respectively and even destroy the targets there. But it will not do that. I assume now it's suppose to fly to the general location of the SPI/PP and then the pilot takes over, ie, man-in-the-loop. But even that I suspect is bugged because I noticed the missile makes only a few arbitrary? and inadequate degrees of flight path correction to the SPI/PP which will not point it in the direction of the SPI/PP if your plane is pointed more than several degrees off target at time of missile launch. See post (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=260808).

How long did you wait after powering on those missiles to launch them?

How long did you wait after powering on those missiles to launch them?

Ahh... I may have missed that below the HSD! Will check tonight. Thanks!

UPDATE: Yes, after waiting for the 3.00min alignment (shown in the sub MFCD under the HSD) to complete before launching the AKG, the missile will fly OVER the SPI and PP in DIR and COO modes respectively, even if you are launching the missile say 30deg off the target location. (This requirement to align was mentioned in Chuck's manual but I could not find it in Deka's manual or in the tutorial vids by Deka/GR.)

Are you guys able to use RP as a turning point for both DIR and COO? I read that RP can be used as such for both modes before turning to their final target point, but so far AKG just flies straight into SPI/PP respectively.

RP is only used in MAN mode

Yup. Coo and DIR will go to PP and SPI respectively.

I did more testing. Basically all 3 modes (DIR/COO/MAN-MITL) require the datalink pod and final manual steering via TV (select POD / MIL). So the modes should really be called DIR-MITL, COO-MITL and MAN-MITL? Should have known better since after all, it's a 'TV Guided Missile'.

 

The way the procedures in the manuals are described (and I appreciate them) may give the impression that DIR and COO modes will fly the missile to the SPI and PP respectively and even destroy the targets there. But it will not do that. I assume now it's suppose to fly to the general location of the SPI/PP and then the pilot takes over, ie, man-in-the-loop. But even that I suspect is bugged because I noticed the missile makes only a few arbitrary? and inadequate degrees of flight path correction to the SPI/PP which will not point it in the direction of the SPI/PP if your plane is pointed more than several degrees off target at time of missile launch. See post (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=260808).

thanks for the confirmation. i agree it would make more sense to label the modes as:

DIR-MITL, COO-MITL and MAN-MITL

Why? It's just the initial learning curve. Now you never need to be told that it's MITL. Waste of space.

Why? It's just the initial learning curve. Now you never need to be told that it's MITL. Waste of space.

It's more like wasting space (and time) on the forum figuring this out when it could easily have been clarified in the manual. Now we know but other newcomers will be puzzled too if the instructions are not updated.

In the manual OK. But not in the jet. It's information you never need a second time.

Yes we were talking about the manuals - clarity.

I think Shaheen means if they all have MITL in the name of the mode what’s the point. Just call them COO DIR and MAN and know that all three require AKG pod. I don’t think by flying directly to SPI they mean completely autonomous guidance, just the best the INS can do and since it has a radar altimeter it needs to know when to turn it off. I don’t think it has an elevation database onboard:) It’s MITL weapon full stop

The MIL missile is a bit of a mess really. It certainly needs a rehauled. Despite setting up a SPI or PP point, I rarely find my chosen priority target or targets. I can't find anything in the real world about this missile but it would be nice to have a direct mode that doesn't require one to manually steer the missile. It's terribly frustrating to have a cruise missile finally but one has to steer it and never find the chosen target.

Have you played with gain/contrast or switched it IR mode?

The MIL missile is a bit of a mess really. It certainly needs a rehauled. Despite setting up a SPI or PP point, I rarely find my chosen priority target or targets. I can't find anything in the real world about this missile but it would be nice to have a direct mode that doesn't require one to manually steer the missile. It's terribly frustrating to have a cruise missile finally but one has to steer it and never find the chosen target.

Make sure you wait 3:30 after arming to launch, or your missile won't be anywhere near your target on camera activation. I though I sucked at using them until I noticed this and now my missiles are pointing more or less at the SPI/PP when they activate.

Yes ditto on the 3min alignment that some may miss as it is only shown below the HSD in the sub MFCD. Without finishing the alignment before weapon release, the missile will not fly correctly to your SPI/PP/RP.

Steering the missile at the last TV phase still is difficult though but at least your target should be within view. You can use target designate (T5 TDC press) or ATA (auto target acquisition) to lock the target in the display which will free you from having to steer the missile.

Try cruising at higher altitude. The biggest challenge I find is steering it since the turn rate sticks and doesn't automatically zero when you stop steering.