Can an F-14 overturn an F-16 !? - Page 7 - ED Forums
 


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Old 01-12-2020, 10:49 PM   #61
Dee-Jay
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Hi!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird View Post
Let's remember that the EM charts are the records of exhaustive flight testing, not theory.

...
I fully concur.

I am jet pilot myself (not F-16 though) and I don't have an accelerometer not a chronometer in my body. ... I would be fairly unable to have a very precise judgement on my aircraft performances compared to another one just by trusting my personal "feelings" or physiological feedback.

Any pilot "feeling" might suffer from some bias. And along the long development of another F-16 sim, with the help of several of our RL F-16 drivers participating to the validation and dev process (Greeks, and US), it has been proven on many cases, that their "feeling" couldn't be trusted. When they were asked to validate something with instruments ... the story always proven them wrong. (sometimes funny as they learned some stuff about their own a/c by referring to something highlighted by the sim!)

Except on some rare cases (which could dependents on actual engine delta performances (temp, actual fuel feed adjustments of the EEC ... etc ...) the published LM charts match.

Lessons learned: What matters are the numbers and the charts/graphics.


Regards.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:54 PM   #62
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... that said ... of course, one needs the right charts for evaluations and correct evaluations protocols (Altitude Pressure, Temps, ... etc ...).
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:16 AM   #63
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Well said Dee-Jay
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:33 AM   #64
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In terms of energy performance, JAS-39 is always out-maneuvered by F-16:
https://postimg.cc/8fryLtqR
(it is an old magazine and does not violate any forum rule)

Last edited by oldtimesake; 01-13-2020 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:30 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtimesake View Post
In terms of energy performance, JAS-39 is always out-maneuvered by F-16:
https://postimg.cc/8fryLtqR
Again without an EM chart you simply don't know. Posting gun cam pics alone doesn't prove anything.

You can make rough physics based guesses ofcourse, but that's about it.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:37 AM   #66
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A 26000 lbs F-16C-50 with loadout drag index = 50 could sustain 14.2deg/sec at 10000ft. Fuel weight + loadout weight = 33% empty weight.
A 55620 lbs F-14B with loadout drag index = 48 could sustain 14deg/sec at 10000ft. Fuel weight + loadout weight = 29% empty weight.

So viper has the edge.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:00 AM   #67
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14.2 vs 14.1 deg/sec max STR is so close it's basically the same, the F-14 however has the advantage of a tighter radius at said STR, not to mention a higher ITR. The F-16's main advantage vs the F-14 is a noticably faster rate of climb and acceleration (& thus energy recovery), not to mention carefree handling. So a dogfight between the two would be close providing both pilots were well versed flying their aircraft.

That said IMHO the F-16 is the overall best dogfighter of the teen series, having the highest STR, rate of climb & acceleration of them all, however that doesn't mean it's the best in every way. An F-16 jock will still have to take care not to fight the other guys fight, like e.g. getting into a 1 circle fight with an F-14 or very slow with an F/A-18.

Last edited by Hummingbird; 01-13-2020 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:01 PM   #68
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https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=260724

Some dogfighting moves are discussed here
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