Project status

Hi there,

I would like to know if the Polychop-Simulations and MilTech-5 were the same company? I heard something about, but I don't know the real history.

I'm interested in purchase the Gazelle using my bonus, but I'm don't know the project status, the last change log update was last year and I'm afraid the Polychop-Simulations is dead.

I watched some videos about the module and it looks good for me, but I don't know if it reproduces very well the real thing.

Can some subject-matter expert recommend this module?

Best regards.

Is not dead, they are making another project behind the scenes. And in the last pach, even if it was not in the changelog, they solved a problem with a shadows. Now they are solving some sounds bugs because of changes in the DCS core engine.

Cheers.

Polychop-Simulations and MilTech-5 was in the pass only Polychop 3rd party, but some years ago the team split and MilTech-5 follow our road. Polychop next project has not confirmed yet. MilTech-5 has making the Bo-105 helicopter series with other 3rd party.

 

 

 

I watched some videos about the module and it looks good for me, but I don't know if it reproduces very well the real thing.

 

 

 

Can some subject-matter expert recommend this module?

 

 

 

Best regards.

Can't talk for polychop but if one of those videos you are referring to is the Grim Reapers on then that guy thinks he knows more than he does. From actual hands on experience with a Gazelle it's about right in terms of flight model.

There is a sound bud at the moment I think but as stated above that's a problem with ED and not PC.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

I watched some test flight videos about Gazelle from Bunyap channel.

Do not mean to sound negative here, but I also want the OP to be aware of this side of the medal. I bought all choppers in a complete chopper package last year. I love them all, except the Gazelle.

I don't know if you already have the Huey or MI-28 ... but if you do, you will hate the Gazelle. The chopper is fine in many areas, but the flight model feels like Arma 3. It is not polished to the level you would expect in DCS. Many people feel the same way.

Even though people will argue on this, you will have no other choice than agree that the developers stay silent on any request from the community to simply answer if:

A. They are aware of the issue and work on it.

or

B. They stand their ground and say the flight model is precise.

But if you like simple flying around where inertia is never felt, then you may like it. Some guys does. But if you are a hardcore rotor head ... I don't think that you will.

Again, I do not mean to offend anyone. I want the OP to be aware of that large chunk of the community that feel the same way.

I have the Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, except the Gazelle. I probably will purchase the AH-1 and Mi-24 from ED/Belsimtek. I'll reconsider the purchase. Thanks for the answer.

Even though people will argue on this, you will have no other choice than agree that the developers stay silent on any request from the community to simply answer[…]

Despite what you're saying they did reply, no later than yesterday …

[…]As we have stated before we want to update the Gazelle after we have reached some milestones of our yet to be announced new module. We deem community input to be quite important when it comes to these planned updates. Enhancing the flightmodel has been discussed before and won't require a poll like this one, it's quite obvious this is something that needs to be done. Same goes for a number of bugfixes, we will try to implement them as soon as possible.

Despite what you're saying they did reply, no later than yesterday …

Oh good news! So at least their point of view on the subject is clear now! I am happy to see that they do affirm that there is an issue there!

We have not stated that there is an issue. Simple fact is, that we have reached out to prrofessionals to help improve our product and assist us as soon they are available at some time this year. There is a reason whywe do not acknowledge or deny an issue, cause we wait to see what the evaluation of the professionals will add to the quality

I don't know if you already have the Huey or MI-28 ... but if you do, you will hate the Gazelle.

I have all four DCS helicopters and the Gazelle is by far my favourite. It took a while to figure out the controls and get the responses set-up, but once I did, it was superb. Further to that, I've since helped a number of other Gazelle-module-owners get their controls sorted out too, and they have gone from haters to enthusiasts.

{...} you will have no other choice than agree that the developers stay silent on any request from the community to simply answer if {...}

A quick look at the post-history of the developer will indicate that they write multiple times per week and have answered the requests multiple times.

That all said, I acknowledge that the community is divided on the matter, and if improvements are coming, that's great! But, I'll add my voice to those who think the SA342 is already pretty awesome. :)

 

A quick look at the post-history of the developer will indicate that they write multiple times per week and have answered the requests multiple times.

 

And when they can't, there a lot of users that have a lot of experience and info, so they can be very helpful.

I really suggest to work on the gazelles FM first, folks do not rave about the current simulation nor do we need teasers of another module. I by myself did not buy the Gazelle because of the bad reputation it has. A finished Gazelle simulation up to ED's standarts is the way to get customers. Take your time, do it right, happy customer that go crazy for the next module. My 2 cents...

I really suggest to work on the gazelles FM first, folks do not rave about the current simulation nor do we need teasers of another module. I by myself did not buy the Gazelle because of the bad reputation it has. A finished Gazelle simulation up to ED's standarts is the way to get customers. Take your time, do it right, happy customer that go crazy for the next module. My 2 cents...

You can suggest whatever you want. But as stated before, they are working in an overhaul for everything, including FM. The thing is the new project is using new technologies that will be used to that overhaul. BTW, is quite interesting how you can call a bad module without trying it first...

never tried the hawk either, youtube is your friend. had the chance to watch a friends gazelle few days ago doing alien stuff right after takeoff... he laughed, we laughed... i skip it till it's in shape.

@RIVER: What alien stuff did he do? Maybe you can explain more about your amusement?

People always get so hung up about the Gazelle FM, because it can do things like loopings and other very non-traditonal maneuvers for a rotary aircraft. The kicker is that it can do these things IRL and there's even youtube videos on it. The FM has been checked with people that have actually flown the gazelle, and most of the stuff that people were complaining about (like for example how flying inverted didn't break the rotor / engine) has been fixed ages ago.

@polychop..nevermind sensational trolls.

Keep the good work up and thanks for

communicating with us

interesting read

@RIVER

You are right, there are serious problems with this module, it is "borched". The main ones are the wrong implemented or failed interpretation of how a flight director works with SAS in combination with magnetic brake, by the programmer. This leads to additional problems with the flight model, which also lacks a dynamic center of mass (the other biggest issue). But people who don't own one of the other heli-modules or never experienced those modules with a FFB-stick won't get it. They may have flown helicopters in games/sims before DCS or just the helicopters in ARMA - which are all extremely simplified. That includes the PolyChop devs, they never had a clue about the realistic trim feature of DCS Black Shark until they released the gazelle and people started complaining about control issues. Before the Blackshark module in 2009, there wasn't a heli sim with realistic joystick input to accurately reproduce force trim / magnetic brake - the heart of steering a helicopter. All the other games just used a simplified input model to get around the problems which will arise with a self-centering stick with a spring. DCS tries to tackle that problem with the alternate trim options (trim - stick to center etc.) but if you don't own a ffb stick or a stick that is able to hold itself in place, you have to get your head around that, which is hard to learn and easy to miss. Those missing trim features in special options alone is an indicator that the gazelle module is not the same fidelity like the other DCS helicopter modules, it's way below the sim standard of DCS.

However, there is enough information about this: start at page 41

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/france/aerospatiale/as341gazelle/flight-manual-gazelle-sa-341g.html

and page 123 for instance. For those who cry THATS the SA341!! go check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale_Gazelle

However, if the Polychops ever achieve to fix it, you can check it by doing this:

1. make sure any curve settings for stick input are set to linear (there should never be a reason to tinker with input saturation)

2. try a cold start scenario, activate the steering axis display to see whats happening

3. move the cyclic around to all extends, see how cockpit's stick matches 1:1 with your input

4. keep moving cyclic, look out the front windows, check the movements of the blades. everything should move 1:1

5. start everything up and get in the air

6. now check if the SAS messed up cyclic input by 1:100

From actual hands on experience with a Gazelle it's about right in terms of flight model.

Might be true performance wise. In regards of handling, probably not. The Gazelle behaves like a Hornet with A/P :ATTH, once the stick is centered, all P/Y/R movement in zeroed out completely, even with any AP / SAS channels, trimmer and magnetic brake off. Add to that a hard coded deadzone which is about 5% of the axis throw which makes it really feel arcade, resulting in the absolute impossibility to fine control the thing at all, considering the fact you hardly ever need more than 20% at all because of its insane agility. Until that is being fixed, I'd even not consider the Gazelle flyable at all, sadly. When this changes, I'll be happy. because otherwise I like the module, except for the grim dark cockpit, which is a general DCS issue though that many modules still suffer from, but work has to be done to the individual modules to get that straight.

Add to that a hard coded deadzone which is about 5% of the axis throw which makes it really feel arcade, resulting in the absolute impossibility to fine control the thing at all, considering the fact you hardly ever need more than 20% at all because of its insane agility. .

The part about the 5% hard coded deadzone is interesting as I do not experience any such thing on my setup. In fact the tiniest little movement on my X55 stick is translated in game, I have zero deadzone at all!

Could it be that some people have bugged installs?

I already checked that, completeley uninstalled and reinstalled the module. No changes. Cyclic input extremely multiplied.

Here is an official Flight test protocol about Flight Characteristics:

check page 17 https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a016921.pdf

It clearly states that normal cyclic displacement movements can be about ~30% off-center, not like in DCS just 5% and the Gaz goes nuts (continuous roll inclusive). Which army would use a helicopter that tries to kill it's pilot with this level of steering sensitivity?

The part about the 5% hard coded deadzone is interesting as I do not experience any such thing on my setup. In fact the tiniest little movement on my X55 stick is translated in game, I have zero deadzone at all!

 

Could it be that some people have bugged installs?

I'm running the FFB2, even tried with FFB switched off. What actually happens in that ~5% deadzone (which is 20% if you set Sat Y down to 25):

The virtual stick moves

RCtrl-Enter caret moves

Helicopter doesn't react to that movement though, starts changing attitude past that ~5% of input suddenly and stops as soon as the input gets inside that "border" again