Interesting fact about the F-16 Side Stick Controller - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2019, 05:30 AM   #11
VampireNZ
Member
 
VampireNZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 967
Default

Cheers - I actually came accross exactly the same info this week as I look for the best way to mount my FSSB R3 also. Is what also made my mind up about purchasing the angle adapter as well.
Interesting you mention the actual stick itself is still aligned fore/aft, just the sensors are 12 deg off. I will check with Manuel at Realsim before final design of the mount to ensure it can be setup like that, else I can also just have mounting holes rotated 12 deg.

I am pretty sure it does have the capability to adjust the rotation thou - from the webpage:

Rotation Adjust
Again hearing our customers, R3 Lighting includes a rotation adjust, in this way, you can rotate physically the R3 hardware in the table or in your desk support, and after that adjust the rotation angle, the R3 lighting will translate all the forces to correct values


EDIT: Just checked the manual - and yes there is an Angle Adjust feature.
__________________
Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.40GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 |
Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit |
TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S |


Last edited by VampireNZ; 07-12-2019 at 05:48 AM.
VampireNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 10:07 AM   #12
Deano87
Senior Member
 
Deano87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,276
Default

Yep! That’s exactly what I noticed as well. I wonder how natural it will feel... Only one way to find out I guess!
__________________
Ignore me I’m probably wrong - Now with 42% extra sarcasm - May contain nuts.

DCS F-16C REALLY IS A THING! - BLOCK 50 BABY!!!

My Screenshots - Excited About = PointCTRL VR
Deano87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 10:22 PM   #13
=Panther=
Member
 
=Panther='s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 763
Default

NVM didn’t think it through.
__________________

Virtual Thunderbirds, LLC | Sponsored by Thrustmaster

Twitch Channel
ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO, i7 6700k, G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB, 1080ti 11GB, Obutto R3Volution, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, TPR, Cougar MFDs, JetSeat, Oculus Rift cv1, Buddy-Fox A-10C UFC

Last edited by =Panther=; 07-12-2019 at 10:44 PM.
=Panther= is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 10:31 PM   #14
Deano87
Senior Member
 
Deano87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by =Panther= View Post
I just installed FSSB R3 Lighting with the angle adapter for the stick, however I don’t see how one can use the adapter and have an offset of any degrees. The adapter can only go one way because of the connector, and that angle neck doesn’t align for the 12° offset. So the angle adapter would need to be remanufactured to have the proper offset.

The base without that adapter can be installed any way, and the software will adjust the sensors.
Hi Panther,

You don’t need to rotate the stick. You align the stick normally with longitudinal axis of the aircraft, so straight front to back. Then using the FSSB software you use the rotation adjust to rotate all the controls 12 degrees clockwise. So if you pull the stick straight back you get mostly up elevator and a small amount of right roll.
__________________
Ignore me I’m probably wrong - Now with 42% extra sarcasm - May contain nuts.

DCS F-16C REALLY IS A THING! - BLOCK 50 BABY!!!

My Screenshots - Excited About = PointCTRL VR
Deano87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 10:43 PM   #15
=Panther=
Member
 
=Panther='s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 763
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deano87 View Post
Hi Panther,

You don’t need to rotate the stick. You align the stick normally with longitudinal axis of the aircraft, so straight front to back. Then using the FSSB software you use the rotation adjust to rotate all the controls 12 degrees clockwise. So if you pull the stick straight back you get mostly up elevator and a small amount of right roll.
Doh I’m just going to blame the high heat and being outside. Lol
__________________

Virtual Thunderbirds, LLC | Sponsored by Thrustmaster

Twitch Channel
ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO, i7 6700k, G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB, 1080ti 11GB, Obutto R3Volution, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, TPR, Cougar MFDs, JetSeat, Oculus Rift cv1, Buddy-Fox A-10C UFC
=Panther= is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 11:24 PM   #16
Fri13
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deano87 View Post
It might not move much but it still requires 25lb of force to demand full pitch command and 17lb in roll, so there’s still a bit of force there.
25lb is 11.36 kg
17lb is 7.75 kg

That is a heavy, heavy force for a wrist to do sideways.

Sure, any adult can set such weights on table and move it with a wrist and arm, but think about flying the fighter and constantly be performing for a hour or two (or what the typical flight hours are per day for active pilot) those motions between 0-11kg!

Quote:
Although the people that I know personally who’ve flown the F-16 mainly complain about neck problems related to the seat recline angle more than anything else, nice problem to have I suppose lol.
The neck problems can very well come from the constant tension that you are required to perform with a right hand heavy loads. All the nerves in your hand gets squeezed when you are fisting and squeezing hard, and they can get stuck in your neck or all the way to between your shoulder plates.
And there is big difference are you using your arm in larger motion, to that are you keeping your arm in one place and having muscle tension because unmobile arm.
As that as well causes a tension to whole neck and upper body muscles and nerves.

Even similar thing can happen for PC users who use a lot of mouse in small mouse pad and they have tension in their wrist from squeezing slightly the mouse, and that leads straight to neck problems.
Similar problems are among tree harvester operators, who operate whole day a big machine with two small joysticks on both hands:



And those joysticks are NOT at all requiring heavy forces, nothing like a 11kg. More like a gamepad dual joysticks.





Lots of the designs has moved forward there to the angled controller, where you can either grab the controller from the top or from the side, and have it tilted to inside and have controller below your wrist.

There is a big difference when you have your arm straight forward with your body like in F-16, and then have it tilted inside toward your left knee, that is more natural angle. Like the normal arm resting position is for right arm that you place your hand on your left chest, and if the arm is set straight with body (palm to the left) and arm at side, it is causing tension on the elbow, shoulder and neck. Why you don't do that even with people who has dislocated shoulder. But for extended rest times it is better have 90 degree angle below your chest, not forward like hand shaking.
__________________
i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 1080Ti SLI 11GB, Oculus CV1.
i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 60" HDR 4K.
Fri13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:58 AM   #17
Deano87
Senior Member
 
Deano87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,276
Default

Good points fri. But that’s for maximum deflections, pilots are rarely using that much force. For normal flying it’s just fingertip work. The neck pain comes from the 30 degree recline of the back and the subsequent forward tilt of the neck to look forward and down into the cockpit while also pulling G. At least that’s what I remember from talking to my brother about it, but I shall ask him next time I see him. I’ve flown a F-16 sim with accurate control forces and I didn’t find them to be a problem. Also, adrenaline is a great thing for making you stronger when you need to be
__________________
Ignore me I’m probably wrong - Now with 42% extra sarcasm - May contain nuts.

DCS F-16C REALLY IS A THING! - BLOCK 50 BABY!!!

My Screenshots - Excited About = PointCTRL VR
Deano87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 01:06 AM   #18
javelina1
Veteran
 
javelina1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: WAFB, Arizona
Posts: 3,319
Default

thanks for the post! I've been flying F-16 style, side stick for years. I prefer it, including even with my WWII birds.
__________________

Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra, i7-9700k (4.9ghz all cores), NH-D15 cooler, 32 GB CL-14 3200mhz RAM, GTX1080SC, Soundblaster Z, Yamaha 5.1 A/V, 1x 512GB Samsung NVMe, 1x 1TB Samsung NVMe, Win 10 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, JetSeat KW-908, Rift "S", Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Case, Seasonic Prime 750W Titanium PW Supply
javelina1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 01:10 AM   #19
Deano87
Senior Member
 
Deano87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,276
Default

Hehe. My plan is to keep my Warthog base as a centre stick so I can switch back and forth as I please. I’m not sure if I’ll go fully over to the side stick or just use it for the Viper. I fly in VR so having the stick being in a different place from where the virtual one is can be a bit jarring.
__________________
Ignore me I’m probably wrong - Now with 42% extra sarcasm - May contain nuts.

DCS F-16C REALLY IS A THING! - BLOCK 50 BABY!!!

My Screenshots - Excited About = PointCTRL VR
Deano87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 02:18 AM   #20
Emmy
Senior Member
 
Emmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,397
Default

There is an arm rest on the right side in the F-16.
__________________

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php
High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use.
www.crosswindimages.com
Emmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
f-16, f-16 stick, fssb, ssc, stick

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:11 PM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.