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Actionable radio traffic


LaLa

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As a relative noobie to A10-C what radio traffic is just "filler/noise" and what traffic is actually actionable.

 

By actionable I mean a radio call like "Bulls 106 for 18" means the target is 18 miles from bullseye along heading 106 degrees.

 

Now this info can be entered into the tad or CDU offset and a markpoint made at that location....great!

 

But what other radio calls are practical to extract exact information from?

 

I'm only playing single player.

 

thanks

 

LaLa

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All of it means something. If you look in the mission planner beforehand, you can often see allied flights' flight plans, which makes the on station at or pushing from calls relevant assuming you're part of a package. BRAA calls from AWACS will let you know if any hostile aircraft are close, etc...DCS is not designed with filler in mind, unless a mission designer deliberately adds in chatter.

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All of it means something. If you look in the mission planner beforehand, you can often see allied flights' flight plans, which makes the on station at or pushing from calls relevant assuming you're part of a package. BRAA calls from AWACS will let you know if any hostile aircraft are close, etc...DCS is not designed with filler in mind, unless a mission designer deliberately adds in chatter.

 

I know it all has meaning, but in practice what information given in a radio message gets translated into a markpoint or a SPI. Some info is to keep you apprised of what's happening, but not meant to be translated into "actionable data input" such as entering of data into database of targets, waypoints, markpoints or SPI's.

 

If the info is regarding a moving target or plane, you're not likely to mark any location on the map, but may note where and what it is.

 

What are the ways that targets are referenced, that might be recorded?

 

  • In reference to bullseye, OK definitely actionable.
  • In reference to another planes path, ie 5 o'clock, noted but not likely attempt to record as info is too dynamic.

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I know it all has meaning, but in practice what information given in a radio message gets translated into a markpoint or a SPI.

 

I'm not sure I even understand your question.

 

If you create a waypoint out of it, then that information does get translated to a waypoint. If you don't, it doesn't. :noexpression:

 

DCS doesn't do any of that for you.

 

Think of DCS as a sandbox. All these automated radio calls are part of the environment. They just happen automatically. What you do with them is entirely up to you.

 

In most missions, you objectives will be given via the briefing, via in-game messages, via voiced-over radio calls, maybe also via forum posts... there's no singular answer to your question. It really depends on the mission, and the scenario.

 

But let me put it like this: "Hawg 1-1, Magic, BRAA, 90, 20, 25000, Hot" should raise some alarms, and "Hawg 1-1, Magic, merged" means you're most definitely in trouble. :D

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Almost sounds to me what op is asking is....Although calls are made as just generic calls to add realism,what calls are made to him specifically to deal with..

 

What I'm trying to do is determine what radio calls, give enough information to identify a target for the purpose of creating a markpoint or SPI.

 

My problem is finding targets, and I wanted to decipher radio calls to help create a precise markpoint or target location.

 

Some info is not nonsense, but about dynamic threats such as a moving targets identified by a fast moving plane or ally. This makes this info very difficult to create a markpoint since by the time you find the source of the radio call the information has changed (source plane changes direction or reported target changes direction), so utilizing that info is very difficult. This kind of information is good to give you feel for whats happening approximately where, but not precise enough to nail down a position as a markpoint. (takes too long to find the source of info (radio call) on TAD? then find what/where they are talking about and then enter that info into the CDU)

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What I'm trying to do is determine what radio calls, give enough information to identify a target for the purpose of creating a markpoint or SPI.

 

Okay, let's try it this way.

 

What's your mission? What's your goal? What are you supposed to achieve?

 

Attack aircraft don't usually hang around the sky and act on random bits of information.

 

Is this even your target? Are you even supposed to enter that airspace? Are you going to cause near misses or midair collisions by stepping on your fellow aviator's toes?

 

All this completely depends on the mission. It sounds like you're trying to solve someone else's problems.

 

Again, these radio calls are part of the sandbox that is DCS. Just because someone calls out a bandit or a ground target or a threat doesn't mean it's your job to engage that target.

 

If you have no idea what you're supposed to be doing, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

 

And if your mission says "go to waypoint 2, destroy 5 trucks, RTB" then all these radio calls don't interest you, unless they keep you from achieving your objective. In most missions, you have very specific objectives. Do your best to achieve them and leave the rest of the war to someone else, and then higher command (aka the mission designer) should reward you (progress to next mission, receive medals, receive top scores, receive a nice "Well done" textbox, whatever). :thumbup:

 

Well, let me try one more example. "Enfield 1-1, tally triple A, bulls 075 for 15". AAA, that's probably a Shilka or a Zu-23 encampment or truck-mounted Zu-23. Finding this one gun or vehicle in a searchbox of that size means it might take you hours to spot it. This doesn't mean you are supposed to destroy it. But if you happen to operate near that area, you know there'll be a AAA threat, and you should keep that in mind in regards to your tactical decisions.

 

Also keep in mind that military lingo and brevities tend to be as clear as possible. If you're supposed to be doing something, it'll probably be voiced in the most unmistakable way possible: "Hawg 1-1, Magic, proceed to bulls 075 for 15, find and engage AAA" - that is most definitely something you should be acting on (given that Hawg 1-1 is actually your callsign, obviously). :smartass:

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What's your mission? What's your goal? What are you supposed to achieve?

 

OK bingo! I'm using the mission as training tool. I completed mission objective very quickly (done it before) ... a single pass killed all significant ground threats (4 Zu-23's and 1 SAM) except infantry, so I was looking for easy ways to find other targets. I destroyed all mission ground targets (unlimited fuel and ordinance...yeah I know but its training for me) but finding them took awhile, hence my question.

 

It appears to me that an A10 at about 200kts has a 1-2 second range advantage over Zu-23s so attacking at low angle of attack, and targets lined up very easy to destroy one after another.

 

My question wasnt related to accomplishing a mission, but merely to locate and identify potential targets from the radio traffic.

 

The A10 is a low slow flyer and the in-plane topo maps are very poor in DCS A10. Good topo are imperative for blocking SAMs and pop over to kill SAMs and therefore assist enormously in planning. I found looking at google maps provided much better maps for mission planning, however you make best of what you have, but better topo make for more exciting experience since low hills provide excellent cover which could be overlooked if using only the in-plane topo on the TAD.

 

Thanx again Yurgon


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As long as you know the general location of the transmitter you can use that bearing-range information, It wont wont give you any pinpoint location on targets but it can guide you to a town, a valley, a hill top or a clearing etc. Only pinpoint target location info you can get is either from a jtac or an aircraft doing fac(a). When you get a general location info instead of a pinpoint one, there are couple of things you can do depending on the terrain, weather and enemy units.

 

You can try to scout that general location by looking out of your cockpit, its not easy to do at the beginning but you get used to it in time.

 

You can try to draw fire and then spot the muzzle flash/missile trail etc. , obviously this one is quite risky if you dont know what you are doing.

 

You can try to scan the area with your onboard sensors like maverick seeker, litening pod.

 

Dont think that you have to create a markpoint over the target to spot him.

 

Long story short, any information you receive about the target location, bearing-range from bulls, bearing-range from transmitter, coordinates etc, as long as they can at least guide you to the general location of the enemy units, you can use it. After that you have to spot the target either with your own eyes or with sensors.

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Ingress and Egress with regards to potential threats are things you generally cover in a briefing where you have the time to really study the map.

 

Sure, judicious use of terrain on the fly can help, but there are fast movers with longer range weapons for dealing with SAM threats. SAMs are usually not something you deal with "on a whim."

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you would hear engaging SAM or defending SAM, or bandit at bulls ... these you can input to TAD to steer clear or pickup the pieces if they fail. That is actionable. If you dont want to listen you can Rshift Backspace to cycle radio reception to own communications. This prevents the slurry of all allied calls even when checked in options.

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Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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Thank you kylekatarn720 and FlyingPhotog, all good info for the noobie.

 

With regard to mission preparation prior to flight, yes, given proper resources (detailed topos marked with significant mission details ie threats, waypoints, easily identifiable man-made or geographic features) makes situational awareness easier while targeting and avoiding threats would help a lot.)

 

Something I havent researched yet os the use of the knee-pad for use of pre-flight intel ie maps etc, but I spose that neednt be incorporated into pdf's for use in flight.

 

With regard to searching out the window, how is a search conducted? Are markpoints created to create a path to plan out where to search, to prevent too much overlap or inefficient random searches?

 

 

Regards LaLa

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You can use this doc i created a while back for kneeboard, Custom kneeboard guide

 

For the visual scouting part, im not that good with it either but i can give you some pointers.

 

First of all, you need a general location of the enemy. like a town, city, river, lake, valley etc. After all you need know where to look at, the second reason for this is that you dont want to fly over enemy positions while doing your recon otherwise you will be an easy target for enemy AAA or SAM.

 

You need to have at least an idea of the enemy unit composition. Do they have manpads, radar sams, AAA's, APC's. These will establish your range restrictions, and what to look for first.

 

For example lets say there is an enemy group inside and around the kutaisi city. You know that they have tanks, apc's, AAA's and manpads.

 

Your priority should be to find the manpads first, take them out and switch over to searching those AAA's.

 

Easiest way to find a manpad hiding in a city IMO is to start a really wide orbit around the city and gradually narrowing the radius of your orbit until you spot the missile trail of the manpad. When you see the missile trail take mental note of the general location of that missile trail and evade the incoming missile while escaping the engagement zone of that manpad. After evading it go high and use your sensors to search the area, create mark point over the target.

 

Main idea here is to stay at the limit of their engagement zone and force them to fire, this will almost always work on manpads and radar sams.

 

AAA's are the tricky ones, cos when they fire at you, you have very little time to react and dodge the bullets. So as far as my experience goes if there are non-radar AAA's in the area and if they are not your primary targets leave them alone, go high and engage targets from maximum range. The problem with AAA's is that you can never be sure if you got all of them. You can take out 3 of them and there can be a single little bugger at the edge of the town that will split you in half if you fly over it.

 

Enemy groups in valleys can be easy to spot and hard to survive at the same time. Since its a valley you have a narrow corridor where it will take considerably less time to search but if they have anything that can fire at you from the hill tops or neighbouring valleys they will most likely take you out by surprise if you get too close. And its really not fun to evade a tor missile by going over a hill and diving behind it, just to find a manpad firing at you from 150 meters.

 

Easiest way to practice this is the create a mission in which you have like 30 AAA's scattered across a big city with each of them having 30 percent chance to spawn so you wont know their exact location. You can use mk82's or guns.

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Great info FlyingPhotog, and kylekatarn720!

 

At this time my questions are related to training, and not the way I would fly a mission, if I were attempting to simulate an actual flight. Information is all good, whether used in actual mission or not, it requires judgement to determine if the action is appropriate under the circumstances.

 

While attacking SAM's may not be a action usually undertaken by A10's doing so is not without value in terms of learning ranges and factors unrelated to the statistics regarding a weapon capability. For example when I watch my attack of Zu-23s I noted how they require a couple of seconds to rotate around to your direction, seems to me that a couple of seconds is often the time window that determine if you hit a target or are hit by it.

 

 

Its great to get this kind of feedback from the DSC community!

 

Thank you!

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Easiest way to practice this is the create a mission in which you have like 30 AAA's scattered across a big city with each of them having 30 percent chance to spawn so you wont know their exact location. You can use mk82's or guns.

 

Great idea I didnt know the ME had the ability to set the probability of objects spawning ...cool!

 

Thank you again kylekatarn720

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